Quiverfull is not a denomination – there are no membership rolls or doctrinal statements to sign. Quiverfull is a philosophy and its consequent lifestyle which Jim Bob and Michelle have demonstrably adopted.

by hopewell for No Longer Quivering

Q: Are the Duggars Quiverfull?

By their own admission, Jim-Bob and Michelle were so “grieved” after reading the information pamphlet in a birth control pill package that they turned their fertility over to God. (“About Us” para.1 See also, Dallas News). That decision has been the reason for their incredible family size of 19 children.

Recently the media has offered several profiles of just who are “Quiverfull” families.

Increasingly, the presence of such large, ideologically driven families is being documented through the medium of the age: reality TV shows and lifestyle cable channel specials, all of which campily depict Quiverfull life as like regular motherhoood, but amplified – more kids, more laundry, more merriment.

The most famous of these families, Michelle Duggar and her husband, Jim Bob…. Their fame sprouts primarily from their novelty: in 2008 Michelle Duggar was pregnant with her eighteenth child so far. “So far” is a ubiquitous phrase in the movement… that cutely restates a Quiverfull family’s continuing trust in God’s control of the womb. But such theological underpinnings are glossed over to make room for the novel details of large family life. (Joyce, Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement, pp 138-139).

Does the decision to trust God and not birth control in their family planning alone qualify them as Quiverfull? Yes. Here’s why:

The Duggars wrote:

As conservative Christians, we believe every life is sacred, even the life of the unborn. Due to our lack of knowledge, we destroyed the precious life of our unborn child. We prayed and studied the Bible and found a host of references that told us God considered children a gift, a blessing, and a reward. (FAQ #2 para. 3).

Among that “host of Bible references” is Pslam 127, verses 3—5, the verse on which the Quiverfull movement has been built:

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD:
and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man;
so are children of the youth.
Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them:
they shall not be ashamed,
but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate. (Pslam 127:3-5 K.J.V.)

The website www.Quiverfull.com says “We exalt Jesus Christ as Lord, and acknowledge His headship in all areas of our lives, including fertility.”(para.1). Mary Pride, a founder of the Quiverfull school of thought has written: “Family planning is the mother of abortion,” (Mary Pride, The Way Home, quoted in Newsweek, para. 4).

The Duggars frequently speak out about “causing” Michelle’s miscarriage by the use of birth control pills. They also adhere to Biblically-based abstinence for a set number of days following the birth of a boy or girl. This also supposedly ties in to the teaching of the Institute for Basic Life Principles, the pseudo-Christian organization founded by Bill Gothard. Gothard teaches couples to only have intercourse when the woman is at her “fertile” time each month.

Even breast feeding, which can be a barrier to conception is not to be prolonged for this reason. Back when the couple had a mere 13 children, Jim-Bob was quoted in the New York Times as saying he had “14 [children], really, since my wife is pregnant and life begins at conception’.” (New York Times, para. 11). An admission of such beliefs by a politician in a paper with worldwide circulation can only mean one thing: He believes it.

The Quiverfull idea began in the backlash against feminism. Mary Pride’s book The Way Home and a book by A Full Quiver by Rick and Jan Hess are most frequently cited as giving birth to the Quiverfull lifestyle. Both reject birth control. These books, with the Bible, and often the teachings of Bill Gothard’s Institute of Basic Life Principles and materials from the dominionist Patriarch group, Vision Forum, constitute the “How-To” manuals for prospective Quiverfull couples. (Joyce, Nation, p. 11).

The Duggars have been eager and thorough students.

On their TV show, Michelle has always said “children are like flowers, you can’t have too many flowers.” Jim-Bob frequently has said that he leaves the decision of having another child up to Michelle…..but is that true? In Gothardite families the husband is the undisputed leader of the family. “[W]omen live within stringently enforced doctrines of wifely submission and male headship,” (Kathryn Joyce – Quiverfull Book, para. 1). If he wants to have sexual relations the wife says “yes.” Since the wife is not able to use birth control or to refuse her husband is the decision to have another child really hers? Would he really forgo his pleasure if she said she couldn’t handle having another child? Maybe. Certainly in other times men have made such a decision.

Today, with birth control the norm, we find it hard to believe. Many a Catholic couple of years gone by have lived out a platonic marriage– at least until the wife’s child bearing years have ended. Given the frequent, enthusiastic kissing and other shows of affection on their TV show though, it is doubtful that he would agree to a platonic life. Given their fervent belief in the rightness of allowing God to control their fertility and that they clearly see “that a woman’s constant sexual availability to her husband is not only her wifely “duty,” but also at the heart of her “ministry” as a believing Christian” (Byrnes, T A (Summer 2009). Patriarchy: the glue that holds the culture war together. Conscience, 30, 2. p.52(2).

I doubt that a platonic marriage will ever exist between Mr. and Mrs. Duggar.

““Our bodies are meant to be a living sacrifice,” write the Hesses. Or, as Mary Pride, in another of the movement’s founding texts, The Way Home: Beyond Feminism, Back to Reality, puts it, “My body is not my own.” This rebuttal of the feminist health text Our Bodies, Ourselves is deliberate.” (Joyce, Nation, p. 11).

One reviewer recounts Kathryn Joyce’s relentless documentation of the Quiverfull lifestyle’s “pretty distasteful practices… including early arranged marriages; constant pregnancy and childbirth; absolute female submission to male authority, whether in the person of a father, a brother, a husband or most cringe-inducing, a self-appointed pastor. Joyce recounts story after story of girls being raised for submission….. ((Byrnes, T A (Summer 2009). Patriarchy: the glue that holds the culture war together. Conscience, 30, 2. p.52(2).

Joyce herself has defined Quiverfull families thus: “Quiverfull parents try to have upwards of six children. They home-school their families, attend fundamentalist churches and follow biblical guidelines of male headship—’Father knows best’—and female submissiveness.” (Joyce, Nation, p. 11).

Do the math on this alone and the Duggars add up to 100% Quiverfull.

Another aspect of the Duggar’s life that speaks plainly to being Quiverfull is the isolated life-style they have chosen and which they show us on their TV program. (I am told this, and their religious beliefs, were made very clear in the original airing of “14 Kids and Pregnant” which has since been re-edited. I have only seen the re-released version.) The family generally does everything together. Friends are discouraged except from like-minded families and in fully supervised settings. Children are not allowed to enroll in sports leagues or other activities that “disrupt” family life. The individual never comes before the family and reflects the Duggars oft-repeated maxim “Jesus first, others second, yourself last.”

When the Duggars made a rare made-for-TV-appearance at a local elementary school this was well illustrated: all of the Duggar children in attendance were below or above the age appropriate to the school. When one of the eldest girls was asked to recommend a favorite book to the children, she struggled to come up with a Quiverfull-favorite “Before You Meet Prince Charming: A Guide to Radiant Purity” by Sarah Mally—a book wildly inappropriate to the age and setting.

While we have seen the Duggars go to “broomball,” (a sport few have even heard of) they naturally went as a family and while there were a few outsiders on the ice, their interactions were very stiff at best. The “friends” we have been introduced to on “16/17/18/19 Kids and Counting” are all like-minded and most are openly members of Bill Gothard’s ATI/IBPL organizations. While we have been told the Duggars participate in home church (often another tell-tale sign of Quiverfull life) we have not been introduced to all the families. This leads me to believe that all may not be members of ATI, but are simply “like minded.”

The Duggar children have been shown to be clueless of such things as the rules of baseball or why Dolly Parton is famous. They knew only that “Miss Dolly” promotes reading and likes kids! Right…. There are no minorities visible in their lives, although that is not a-typical of white middle class families in suburban and rural areas. Finally how many “average” teenagers would ask for quotes from “the Founding Fathers” to adorn their bedroom walls or to share a bedroom with siblings ranging in age from birth to 18? Probably none—outside of those educated in revisionist Christian Dominionist history and born into a Quiverfull family?!

On the TV special “16 Kids and Moving In” we met the Holt family. Jim Holt is a long-time friend of Jim-Bob and is also active in Arkansas politics. His similarly large family had been linked to the Duggars publically thru their “fellowship” gatherings and thru broomball at the local rink. Duggar and Holt campaigned for each other as well. In the show the children are shown mingling and talking with the adults—evidence of how well “socialized” they are compared to public school kids who spend all day with age-mates. Mysteriously, the friendship cooled after the Duggars TV shows began.

There have been unconfirmed rumors that the eldest Duggar child, Joshua, was “betrothed” to one of the Holt girls, but that betrothal never went forward into marriage, possibly due to some transgression of rules by Joshua Duggar. (Google “Duggar – sin in the camp.”)

Another family, the Forsyths, own Fort Rock Family Camp and were featured an the episode in which we were invited along on a Father/Daughter camping retreat. While the Forsyths have only two children, they clearly live a family-centered, Patriarchal lifestyle—as was shown on an episode of “World’s Strictest Parents.” While on this retreat we also saw Jim-Bob being a “father to the fatherless–” reaching out to girls who had lost their father to death. This was to show that the Duggar children DO have friends beyond their siblings.

Then there is the Bates family. Gil and Kelly Bates are long-time friends of the Duggars who have recently become closer as their mega-families (all of similar age) begin reaching Courtship age. They have connected at ATI family events and the Duggars have been shown designing and helping build almost an entire new home for the Bates family. Like the Duggars, the Bates speak openly about changing their thinking to allow God to plan their family. In fact, Kelly Bates said “I always told my family I wasn’t going to have any children….I was very career oriented.” “[Kelly] said she wanted to work with special needs children or in some kind of ministry.”

It is my belief that a few ideas have been “road tested” for the Duggars by the Bates. One such is the idea of grown unmarried daughter continuing her education after her GED. In the last season of “18 Kids and Counting” we were introduced to the tremendous musical talent of Erin Bates and were informed that she had turned down a chance to study music in college. Apparently this did not go down well with viewers. Erin was allowed to take a music theory course at a local ultra-conservative Christian school—Crown College. One of the older Duggar girls even got to go along to see the college. The second “test drive” by the Bates is the possibility of college study on a larger scale than merely a necessary class. They have acknowledged that that their eldest son “Zachary earned a high score on his ACT test, has a high school degree and is now immersed in college-level studies.” Could this be testing the waters for a Duggar boy or Girl? Not likely, given Gothard’s teachings, but still a possibility.

Another way we know the Duggars are Quiverfull is by their children’s pat answers. In each of the episodes when a new baby has been announced the kids are always “thrilled.” So, too, are the Bates children—shown “celebrating” Mom’s positive pregnancy test early in the morning on the long drive to the Duggar’s home. We were treated to a family “vote” on the new baby’s name, too [for Jordyn]. It is very telling that the older girls speak of “our little kids” in ways normally only a mother would speak. A hallmark of such families is to have the older children (especially the older girls) help out with the housework and child care. The little children are routinely shown being helped, instructed, scolded and comforted by their big sisters. Still, it is “Daddy” whose word is law. The command “Daddy says no one is to play outside,” was shown in one episode to elicit immediate obedience.

The Duggar children, after age 8, are expected to help their younger siblings thru the family’s “Buddy System.” The “big Buddy” helps the little one get dressed, do school work and even help them learn to play the piano or violin. Jim-Bob has written in their book that “The buddy system brings much joy to our home.” The family also uses what they call “jurisdictions” which divide the household chores among the children. “Many hands make light work,” is a favorite Duggar saying. The most arduous chores—such as meal preparation and the never-ending laundry, however, are in the hands of the elder girls and have been since they were pre-teens. [“14 Kids…” “16 Kids…” “Raising 16 kids”]. In the early Duggar TV specials the older girls were visibly exhausted and shown bizarrely wearing dress coats and carrying diaper bags and shoulder purses all before reaching their teens.

The older children also are expected to uphold the teachings and standards imposed by the parents. Viewers were recently treated to Joy-Anna Duggar [a preteen at the time] covering a TV screen and using the family code word “Nike” to prevent her younger brothers from seeing something inappropriate. She did not want them to be “defrauded” by the image on the screen, but could not really define the term “defraud.” Her sheepish Grandmother explained that Joy-Anna had been taught to do this. Very recently we saw Josh Duggar and wife Anna back home helping care for his siblings while Michelle and baby Josie were hospitalized. He spoke of having to reassert his authority as the eldest sibling.

Various Duggar children were shown at the San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival enjoying “wholesome” family entertainment, such as the movie “Fireproof” and speaking out about how badly this is needed. Strangely, many of the Duggars watching these films were way below the target audience age, but being a Quverfull and Patriarchal family, they all went together.

The kids have all been shown participating in activities at an ATI family event in Big Sandy, Texas and, we have been told, Josh Duggar met his wife, Anna, in a concession line at one such event. While the boys mostly went off to enjoy themselves rappelling and doing other fun things, the older girls were volunteer helpers with all the little children’s activities at the event and only enjoyed a break for the combined orchestra’s practice and performance. Later in the same year, the oldest girls earned a break from housework and child care and attended an ATI girls retreat designed to reinforce the teachings they have grown up with.

The Duggars are also part of the “debt free” and “self supporting” wing of the Christian right. Jim-Bob gives credit to ATI’s financial guru, Jim Sammons–even linking to Sammon’s program on the family web site. The Duggars and their most visible friends eschew jobs in favor of family-owned businesses. Keeping the family together in the home, in homeschool and in family- and home-based business is essential to Quiverfull thinkers.

Jim-Bob Duggar has been very “blessed” by some of his real estate deals. Examples shown on their show were land rented out for a cell phone tower as well as a former chicken hatchery that is leased as commercial and warehouse space. In their book he gives even more details of fortunate real estate deals. Michelle explained on the show that they worked “really hard” when they were young to be able to “relax” now.

The Duggar sons are expected to follow this line of thinking in their own careers. To date 3 sons are now done with their “education,” have a GED and are in business. Josh, following in his father’s footsteps, has a used car lot. John David, again in his father’s footsteps, has a towing business. Joseph, who is currently at the family home with elder brother John, has not been identified as having his own business but is said to be helping John. To mainstream America, these boys are not educated to the point of having a job at much more than McDonalds. In fact you cannot even enlist in the U.S.Marine Corps with a GED! But in Quiverfull families, this is normal.

The Duggar friends all have similar business—the Stanleys have a construction company, the Bates own a tree service company, the Maxwells have a family business producing materials for family scheduling. In their book, the Duggars provide mere lip-service to the idea that their children could realistically aspire to more:

“If one of our children is called to a specialized field, such as medicine, we will help him or her prepare for it. But our main educational goal is to give them as much knowledge and as many skills as possible to prepare them for adult life. While we value academics, we also want to prepare them to run a household or support a family with skills such as cooking, sewing, carpentry, plumbing, electrical, mechanical, money managing, negotiating, and sales experience.”

The Duggar daughters have been shown via the Discovery Health Channel’s web site to have career goals. The joke is on the readers however, as each girl has chosen a Gothard-approved goal like nurse, midwife, missionary, beautician. Helpfully, ATI has training programs in each of these areas. The Duggars also have shown how they teach the girls to change the oil in the car or change a flat tire as well as showing the boys learning to cook or doing some housework. This particular episode of the show seemed hopelessly “staged.” Especially when the girls were shown in the garage learning about the car—all while little Johanna toddled about in such an inappropriate setting!

The Duggars show up consistently as visitors for “fellowship” with other openly Quiverfull families on their family blogs. The Maxwells, a family who sings and ministers together and whose adult children continue to live with their parents and under their authority, have not only been seen visiting with the Duggars, but have had their “Chore Packs” and “Managers of Their Homes” Scheduling product featured on the Duggar’s show. Links to other family visits:

Maxwell Family: Fellowship on the Road

Joel’s Journey: Visiting the Duggar Family…

Staddon Family: Meet the Bates Family

Dotrignac Family: March 14th 2006

Sam Baldwin: Duggars and Baldwins

Jim-Bob and Michelle Duggar, their friends Gil and Kelly Bates and others would not be speaking at ATI/IBLP events unless they fully toed the “party line” of Bill Gothard. The Duggars are the “cash cow,” the “draw” for the organization. That party line is “Quiverfull” with a capital “Q”. Do they agree with the idea of “militant fecundity”—i.e. “outbreeding” the liberal right? (Newsweek, para. 6-7). I believe so. After all Joyce writes:

Quiverfull women are more than mothers. They’re domestic warriors in the battle against what they see as forty years of destruction wrought by women’s liberation: contraception, women’s careers, abortion, divorce, homosexuality and child abuse, in that order. (Joyce, Nation, p. 11).

The Duggars, in years past, were active in the Right-to-Life movement, attending protests as a family. Recently the tabloid press has reported that Michelle’s elder sister is a partner in a long-term lesbian relationship. While that sister has been shown on the TV show there was no discussion of her lifestyle.

Jim-Bob has been active in politics for years. Eldest son, Joshua, was once known as “the Little Governor” for trailing his Daddy around the Arkansas State House. Josh has also stated his goal of entering politics, although that has not been mentioned on the TV show. For a while at least, Joshua had a part-time business doing “communications” work for politicians. Sadly, his name is the only thing that will help him compete against homeschoolers graduating from Patrick Henry College and other conservative political training grounds. Even his once stated-goal of attending Bill Gothard’s online law school would not help him. Graduates of that institution are reportedly allowed to sit the bar exam in only a few states—possibly only in California. Even the oldest Duggar girl’s have had political experience on the campaign for their Dad and for former presidential candidate and family friend Mike Huckabee.

So, how does all this mesh with a TV reality show? Not very well. There are a few possibilities here.

• First, that Jim-Bob and Michelle, like most parents, have moderated their standards and expectations over time. A household with kids ranging from birth to early adulthood has very, very different needs than a family of under-5s. That the kids, especially the oldest 6, are sporting trendier, but still modest clothing, and better hairstyles is a sign of growing up and of more prosperous financial times for the whole family.

• Second, that they are “white washing” or “soft pedaling” on the Gothard part of their lives to be more attractive to a wider audience. This may also be a requirement in their contract with TLC. Gothard’s true membership figures are not known and the Duggars could be a great recruiting tool to other like-minded families who would not otherwise learn of the organization. Things like the “family uniform” put off “seekers” who might be enticed to become ATI and Quiverfull families. So too are many of the disciplinary practices touted by Gothard’s organization. These would not appeal to a broader audience

• Third, they may have “given” a little on dress in order to conduct “friendship evangelism.” The family’s stated goal in going on TV was to reach others for Christ. As then 15-year old Jana Duggar put it in one interview: “’We’re able to share with others about Christ and what he’s done in our lives,’ she said, stressing the family’s primary message: ‘Children are a blessing and not a burden.’” Out-of-style clothing and bad hair are noticed in all the wrong ways. Looking like “everyone else,” if a bit more modest, helps newcomers to see their lifestyle as attainable and enjoyable.

Which is the truth? While nay-sayers will quickly vote for “selling out for commercial gain,” it’s likely some of each is a possibility. Still, the Duggars would not be invited to speak at all kinds of ATI/IBLP or Vision Forum events without being card carrying members of the Quiverfull party. I believe Jim-Bob and Michelle, as the world’s most visible adherents to Gothard’s teachings, have the organization’s permission to style themselves in a more mainstream mode.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck …

So, bottom-line time:

Quiverfull is not a denomination – there are no membership rolls or doctrinal statements to sign. Quiverfull is a philosophy and its consequent lifestyle which Jim Bob and Michelle have demonstrably adopted.

Are the Duggars Quiverfull? You bet your life!

Are they Patriarchal? Of course!

Michael Pearl has issued a scornful brush-off of critic’s charge that No Greater Joy Ministry’s “child-training” advice incited Kevin and Elizabeth Statz to beat their 9-year-old daughter, Lydia to death using quarter-inch plumbing supply line.

by Vyckie

I am nearly speechless with anger after reading a link postedby NLQ forum member, Asteli which highlights Michael Pearl’s “Laughing” Facebook note response to his critics.

“It has come to my attention that a vocal few are decrying our sensible application of the Biblical rod in training up our children. I laugh at my caustic critics, for our properly spanked and trained children grow to maturity in great peace and love.”

A vocal few? Who Is Speaking Out Against Abuse? ~ I’d say there are more than a few “caustic critics” who are outraged over the “application of the Biblical rod” which lead to the death of Lydia Shatz.

“Numbered in the millions, these kids become the models of self-control and discipline, highly educated and creative-entrepreneurs that pay the taxes your children will receive in entitlements. When your children finally find an honest mechanic or a trustworthy homebuilder, it will be one of ours. When your children apply for a job it will be at a company our children founded. When they go to a doctor, it will be one of our Christian children that heals them with cutting edge innovation. When your adult kids go for therapy it will be one of our kids-become-psychologist that directs them to the couch and challenges them to release their self-loathing and embrace hope for a better tomorrow.”

Numbered in the millions ~ that’s a terrifying thought ~ but it is true that No Greater Joy Ministries is a 1.5 million dollar a year business. If no one was buying, reading, and implementing the Pearl’s potentially-deadly child training advice, we could laugh right back at him ~ but as it stands, this is no laughing matter.

Models of self-control and discipline? Yes ~ undoubtedly, children trained by Pearl’s methods will have extraordinary self-control and self-discipline ~ anyone whose ever survived the terrorism of physical and emotional abuse as a child will testify to their ingrained ability to tow the line ~ to jump when the abuser yells, Jump! and to never dare let go and just be a carefree, happy, inquisitive child uninhibited by the abusive parent’s seemingly-omniscient watchfulness and omnipotent control.

So far as Michael Pearl’s boast regarding the superiority of NGJ-trained kids ~ it is doubtful that children whose natural inquisitiveness has been stifled by their parents’ expectation of “instant, joyful obedience” will retain the sort of creative, flexible, risk-taking personalities which characterize entrepreneurs and successful business professionals.

I well remember paging through my copy of To Train Up A Child as a dreamy-eyed young mother desperately seeking the very best, most godly way to raise my children.

In his book, Michael Pearl suggests tempting a child with a bite of their favorite food ~ placing a morsel within the child’s reach ~ and when said child instinctively reaches out for the food ~ Switch their hand once and simultaneously say, ‘No.’ Repeat as many times as necessary until the child is trained not to automatically grab for whatever he or she wants ~ but rather, to automatically look to the parent for permission before reaching out to take the desired food.

Even in my Quiverfull-induced stupor ~ I recognized the cruelty of such parenting advice ~ to deliberately tempt your child and then smack them when they take the bait?!! I remember thinking, didn’t Jesus teach us to pray “lead us not into temptation”? If it’s not okay for our Heavenly Father to lead us into temptation ~ how can it be right for earthly parents to do this to their children? I did not bother to finish reading the book.

Thankfully, I joined the local Le Leche League group for breastfeeding support and was introduced to Dr. William Sear’s “attachment” approach to parenting which jived with my natural inclination for gentle mothering. Admittedly, I still did occasionally spank my children ~ but thankfully, I stopped short of purchasing the quarter-inch plumbing supply line in my quest to have happily obedient children.

“When your children grow old and realize their mortality and seek to make peace with their Creator, it will be one of our children that shares with them the message of God’s love and forgiveness.”

Holy shit! ~ I am having difficulty finding words to express the anger ~ the fury ~ which I felt rising up within me as I read Pearl’s utterly preposterous claim that children raised according to his methods will be sharing the message of God’s love. Pardon my French, but ~ WTF?!!

Since the No Longer Quivering website was started almost a year ago, former Quiverers and their children have taken the opportunity to share their heart-wrenching stories of spiritual abuse ~ and the sheer horror of it all is so overwhelming that readers are sickened and often need to take a break ~ it’s just too much to bear!

Sadly, many of us ~ myself included ~ cannot hear the words “God” and “love” in the same sentence without a roll of the eyes or the need of a barf pail.

“My five grown children are laughing at your foolish, uninformed criticism of God’s method of child training, for their kids-my 17 grandkids-are laughing . . . because that is what they do most of the time. They laugh when Daddy is coming home. They laugh when it is time to do more homeschooling. They laugh when it is time to practice the violin and piano. They laugh when they see their Big Papa coming (that’s me) because Big Papa is laughing and they don’t care why just as long as he laughs with them.”

God’s method of child training. Need I say it? This man is delusional!

“My granddaughters laugh with joy after giving their baby dolls a spanking for ‘being naughty’ because they know their dolls will grow up to be the best mamas and daddies in the world-just like them.”

Not to mention sick and twisted.

“People all around the world, in places like Russia, China, Germany, New Zealand, Guatemala, Peru, Africa, and fifty other countries are laughing with joy because after applying the Biblical principles found in our books they finally have happy and obedient children.”

Take note people: parents around the world are laughing with joy because after beating their children into unquestioning submission, their kids no longer have the will to resist the extinguishing of their personhood and the murder of their very souls.

Do you think that Michael Pearl’s lunatic ranting cannot possibly get any worse? Think again:

“Even my chickens are laughing . . . well, actually it is more like cackling, because they just laid another organic egg for my breakfast and they know that it was that same piece of ¼ inch plastic supply line that trained the dogs not to eat chicken.”

Shameless and unrepentant, Michael Pearl shows not an ounce of remorse or regret ~ not even an inkling of pity for Lydia Shatz or her parents who are living the nightmare of knowing they killed their child for the glory of God.

Revolting as Michael Pearl’s mockery is ~ the response of his followers is all the more disturbing:

“Laughing with you Mike and Debi!!! LOL”

“Strangers and friends alike, are always asking why our kids are so happy! Thank you, Pearls, for your consistent encouragement over the years.”

“The world needs more laughter, of the wholesome kind!”

They were trafficking Liberian children for the glory of God’s kingdom. And, they were preying upon highly Conservative, Patriarchal, Evangelical and often Quiverful families  … These children adopted from Liberia are survivors. They do NOT ’submit’. They fake it, but they don’t mean it in their hearts. And, Pearl flat-out says to BEAT THEM AGAIN, make their heart reflect submission. Hit them over and over and over again until their heart complies to what you want, or you will condemn them to the pits of Hell if you don’t.

by “Jo” ~ this post comes from the No Longer Quivering discussion forums.

He (Michael Pearl) insisted that Christians could achieve total sanctification (a state of sinless living) in this lifetime. We heartily disagree. We actually believe that is an un-Biblical and unhealthy teaching which can lead to any number of problems – in particular legalism and perfectionism.

The is the HEART of Micheal Pearl’s teachings. Its a STRONG belief in QF/P circles in general. But, its paramount to Pearl.

If you take these traumatized children and you decide that the only way you can parent them is to force them into a SINLESS life, its a death sentence.

Those who don’t lose their lives often lose their souls. The Reactive Attachment Disorder this creates is often insurmountable. But, for a few, it is so much worse because it becomes literal, physical death.

And, what Micheal Pearl is NOT putting in his latest press release is quite simple. His theology and parenting philosophy taken to its logical conclusion is an acceptance that these children are better off DEAD than not having attained the sinless life that is required of them.

In Micheal Pearl’s world, Lydia is better dead than spelling that word wrong. Plain and simple. Read his site (with a BIG bowl to puke in) and its everywhere. He is very MUCH responsible for this child’s death and the threat to the others. And, the sickening fact is that wackadoo’s sphere of influence is GROWING and infilitrating the non-Quiverfull/non-P Evangelical community at large.

I know what its like to parent these children from the war ravaged regions of W. Africa. My son is one of those children. He’s one of the FEW who has fully resolved his PTSD through intensive and specialized trauma therapy. His former therapist still consults with families whose children have been adopted from the region because the success rate of helping these children heal is SOO low.

My son is so very resilient and lucky. But, for most of these kids, its that resiliency that can then backfire. My son actually trained his brain to maintain a sleep-dream state of conciousness at all times. He had to re-train his brain to have a concious alert state because the coping mechanism was not necessary anymore. So, even wide awake, he was slow to respond, showed NO emotions (again a coping mechanism to keep you alive when you are in the precense of true evil) and was really retreated into himself…except when his PTSD would get triggered and he wasn’t there at all but was raging against the monsters and the demons that weren’t there. I was there. I took the brunt of those monster and demons. I got his siblings to safety and restrained him to keep him safe until they passed for YEARS.

I really and truly get what its like to parent these kids.

I also am fully, FULLY aware of what the 2 main facilitators who were placing children from Liberia were doing at the time this particular family adopted their children. I personally reported one of those facilitators to the US Embassy. And, I got into some bitter disputes with the personnel of the other facilitator.

They were trafficking, one for cash and the for the glory of God’s kingdom. And, they were preying upon highly Conservative, Patriarchal, Evangelical and often Quiverful families for the cash the needed to continue their ‘work’ (and hefty paychecks but that’s not to be discussed). Most adoption agencies don’t work with Quiverfull families for the simple fact that you cannot get pregnant in the process of adopting. You cannot adopt within 6-12 months of having a baby (depending on the agency and the country). And, you cannot continue with an adoption if you get pregnant.

During our international adoptions were actually the only time in our QF years when we were deliberately using birth control. It turned out I had health issues which left me with secondary inferitlity. But, we were using birth control so we COULD adopt.

Liberia attracted a lot of QF/P adoptive families because these 2 faciltiators targetted those families. The ‘godly’ facilitator was heavily marketed via Above Rubies. Though, I’m sure they never declared to that sect they were not a true adoption agency and had been cited by the state they were in repeatedly for lying about it.

Both groups were actually stealing children from families in Liberia and selling them. It was AWFUL and the QF/P movement contributed wholly to the situation. The only dvelopment in adoption that made me happier than seeing Liberia closed to international adoptions was the day Charles Taylor was captured and transported to Sierra Leone to face his victims. On both days, I actually danced for joy to read the news.

So, the situation when this family brought these girls was AWFUL. The Liberian children were in HORRIBLE conditions. The UN had snuck into the grounds of one facilitator’s compound with Liberaian officials and tried to get them closed down. The children were traumatized, often stolen from their families, treated like second rate citizens and shipped off to do-gooder Americans as bounty.

And, into the hands of those Americans, these facilitators encouraged the writings of Micheal Pearl. Now, to be fair, most of these families were already avid followers of the nut job. Most of them were well versed in their plumbing tubing and had raised their armies will great success for years already.

But, they brought traumatized children into a situation where strangers were beating them…in much the same manner their ‘rescuers’ in Liberia had done. They knew how to survive, but they most definitely did NOT know these people were family, parents, protectors. And, when these people acted like foe, these children respond in the same fashion.

When you put Micheal Pearl’s work into the hands of families with these traumatized children, its a recipe for disaster. Four years ago, a little boy came out of the foster system traumatized and into the hands of a woman who was die-hard adovate for Pearl. Sean Pollock lost his life for that mistake. Lynn Pollock could NOT distinquish where a ‘line’ was when she disciplined Sean. And, the reason she couldn’t find the LINE is because if you strictly follow Pearl’s teachings, there is NO LINE. The LINE is when the child submits, with a cheerful spirit, and nothing less. These children are survivors. They do NOT ’submit’. They fake it, but they don’t mean it in their hearts. And, Pearl flat-out says to BEAT THEM AGAIN, make their heart reflect submission. Hit them over and over and over again until their heart complies to what you want, or you will condemn them to the pits of Hell if you don’t.

Micheal Pearl’s teachings are death to a child who is not attached to his parents. Because, its NOT Pearl that establishes a line that keeps children alive. Read his work. Go to his website. Its very quick easy to realize that there is NO line for Pearl. The real LINE is the small voice in the back of a mother’s heart that says, this is wrong, I must stop, I will do damage if I push through any further.

For these children and their detached parents, that voice doesn’t exist. These mother’s hearts are NOT turned to their babies to protect them because their hearts don’t recognize those as their babies anymore than these children recognize them as mother. The danger is in flat-out in following these teachings at all with adopted children, especially traumatized adoptees.

Good, reputable adoption agencies would NEVER promote anything close to Micheal Pearl. The few adoption agencies that were working in Liberia had specific stances against all spanking for these children. Even the largest Christian adoption agency in this country, Bethany, has a policy against spanking adoptees. While agencies cannot screen out every die-hard, they do know to watch for it and to not place children where they truly suspect it exists.

This safety was not in place in Liberia with these facilitators. They encouraged Micheal Pearl, Garry Ezzo and Ted Tripp. They facilitated everything about their adoptions as a Christian duty to rescue these heathen children. And, they firmly espoused that those children had to be trained by the rod to be rescued from their heathen ways.

No, Micheal Pearl didn’t kill this child again. But, he put a gun in her volatile mother’s hand and told her to only use it to intimidate the child.

Advocating Biblical chastisement  blurs the lines between discipline and beating. No Greater Joy Minister, Michael Pearl suggests using a 1/4 inch plumber’s supply line 10 times, per chastisement, increasing that amount if the child resists the discipline.

This article was first published at No Longer Quivering.

by WanderingOne

[2] http://www.chicoer.com/publicsafety/ci_14364274

[3] http://cbs13.com/local/Parents.Accused.Of.2.1504691.html

[4] http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/general-view/archive/2001/may/01/in-defense-of-biblical-chastisement-part-1/

[5] http://www.khsltv.com/content/localnews/story/DA-Deadly-Child-Abuse-Case-Linked-To-Biblical/v9e-rmj-dk6t5b2Dx8U_gA.cspx

by Calulu

Of all the things that happened during my ten years in the Quiverful movement I think that the one thing that caused me the most pain was my inability to bear children. Being infertile in a movement based upon the notion that God grants the righteous a full quiver of arrows led to all sorts of interesting assumptions by people that swore I was their Sister in Christ.

Based upon the ways I was treated because of my fertility challenges I came to realize that my church ‘family’ was as dysfunction and rude as any family featured on a sleazy television talk show.

I’d been an only child, growing up in a large home in south Louisiana. My parents had an arranged marriage, which wasn’t uncommon in Cajun culture of the time. But they could barely tolerate each other long enough to produce me, much less brothers and sisters. As a kid I always wanted brothers or sisters.

My childhood was a lonely one. I spent my time either under the watchful eye of the nuns at school, in my room playing quietly or sitting in the kitchen talking to Mamie, our family maid. There weren’t many kids in the neighborhood.

Those early experiences made me determined to have more than one child, to have at least three or four.

Many years later when my husband and I were baby Christians at Possum Creek Church we only had two children, a daughter of 4 and our son was 7. We’d never really discussed how many kids we wanted but once we were members of PCC we started to absorb some of the ideals bandied about by our new friends.

But the thing that tipped us into embracing the Quiverful was a medical emergency. Our four year old daughter, Laura, ended up in ICU with ITP – idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura. Her body started to routinely kill off her platelets for no known reason. After a few scary bouts where we almost lost our baby the doctors started to tell us that they might have to use chemotherapy to stop her immune system from doing further damage. One doctor advised us to have another child and make sure that the cord blood was banked for future possible use on our daughter.

My husband James and I discussed this. I talked to the ladies of our Thursday morning Bible study about the idea of having another child and they challenged me to allow God to gift us with as many children as He deemed. While James and I didn’t use birth control, we’d never considered allowing God to direct the number of our offspring. I’d figured at some point we’d just decide our family was large enough and we’d stop having kids by artificial methods.

Being that we were both very new Christians we were both excited and pleased to learn that not only were we being lead into the right way pleasing to God but it would benefit our child. James and I were eager to discover the will of God and do it.

What followed wasn’t pleasant. All around me at Possum Creek ladies got pregnant with ease and were delivered of healthy babies while it seemed nothing I did resulted in pregnancy. I fasted, I prayed and I pleaded with God. Was He angry with me? Had I done something unforgivable in my past that kept me from conceiving?

Ten years of frustrations. When I did manage to conceive I would get to the ninth week of pregnancy and miscarry. Over those ten years I became pregnant and lost the baby no less than nine times.

At first my church family members were sympathetic but as time went on I became the target of some rather ugly advice. It started simply when a close friend whispered to me during a fellowship meeting that God told her I’d lost my baby because I would drink an occasional soda and everyone knew that brand caused fetal tissue death. And it all went downhill from there.

For one thing the ‘helpful suggestions’ started to get meaner. Now I wasn’t being advised to use this natural hormone cream or that supplement. From my friend’s comment about having brought this onto myself by my habits I started being picked apart by critical comments. Some began to suggest in prayer that whatever I’d done to bring this barrenness upon myself be revealed to me so I could repent, pray and be healed. After all, God did bless the righteous with many arrows in their quivers so obviously there was something unrighteous about me. It didn’t hit me fully how looked down upon I’d become until a church member referred to me as her ‘heathen buddy who only has two children’ Someone else spread on the prayer list that I had problems related to a past abortion, even though I’d never had an abortion.

Oddly enough, no one dared lay any of the blame for sin or unrighteousness at my husband James feet. This was perceived to be all my doing somehow.

It was like bleeding to death from a million paper cuts. For me that’s what it felt like, like my soul was dying slowly. I cried nearly every single day and forgave over and over again, starting to feel like there really was something wrong with my soul. My daughter Laura says that is the one constant she remembers from those day. That I wept daily and I wept in church before the altar.

The beginning of the end of both my membership in Possum Creek and our attempts to have another child came at Christmas time four years ago. That Christmas morning I had to be taken to the nearest hospital because I was miscarrying for the ninth time. This time hurt so much more, both physically and emotionally, than all the other times. I’d somehow managed to make it to 12 weeks. I’d assumed that since I was past that 9 week danger zone that this baby would be alright.

Four am Christmas morning. Me curled into fetal position, weeping and wailing even as the morphine was kicking in while James was holding me in his arms. He whispered to me, “Enough. This is killing you. We can’t do this anymore.”

It was the first wise sensible thing anyone had to say yet about our reproductive madness. I never really recovered physically from that final miscarriage. Every month came and I bled profusely as my red blood cell count kept dropping. My doctor didn’t seem to be able to do anything to slow down the bleeding or build up my cell count. I became increasing wan and weak, even after a few D&Cs to clean out the bleeding.

Someone that was not a friend sent out a church wide email saying to pray for me because I’d had another abortion. I tried several times to correct this gossip in the guise of prayer without much success.

At this time Possum Creek church had started teaching that there was no illness that Jesus couldn’t cure, in fact, they proclaimed that it was always God’s will to heal. You didn’t get a healing from being prayed for? You didn’t have enough faith. You simply had to have faith.

The more they harped on being healed by your faith, the angrier I became. Every Bible study, worship service and conference became an opportunity for someone in the church to chide me for not having faith enough that God was going to heal me. I was walking in unbelief according to many. My doctor was urging me to have a complete hysterectomy to regain my health.

And I wasn’t the only one being urged to shun modern medical treatment to wait for the Lord’s healing power. During those times two cancer patients in the congregation refused all medical treatment and ended up losing their lives following the church teaching.

After all that I ended up having that hysterectomy and leaving Possum Creek. My doctor told me after the surgery that there was no way I could have carried another child to term because of the scarring.

I should have had that surgery years before. I should have listened to my inner voice. I should have ignored the judgment of the others but I didn’t.

(The name of the church has been changed to protect the identity of the members.)

This article was originally posted on No Longer Quivering.

Andrea and Scott Bass are seen in these undated booking photos provided by the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office. Bass and her husband were arrested Feb. 4 for investigation of child abuse, kidnapping and unlawful imprisonment of his 14-year-old daughter. (AP/Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office)

by KM

You have probably heard the story by now. Scott and Andrea Bass, the Arizona couple who locked a fourteen year old girl in a bathroom without running water for two months and tortured her to the point of starvation? I’m wondering if this is a homeschooling Quiverfull family–and, if so, why the media has not remarked on it yet?

Let me be very clear here: I am not making this leap based merely on reports that the family homeschools. I recognize that it is impossible to generalize that all homeschoolers are Quiverfull fundamentalists, and that there are many viable reasons for homeschooling that have nothing to do with extremist religious ideology. Even though it is well-established that a large percentage of homeschoolers are Christian conservatives (See, for instance, the US Census statistics here), broad strokes about homeschooling are beside the point.

Mostly, I’m wondering about this because the style of “punishment” seems so parallel to so many of the stories of abuse written by ex-Quiverfull women and children. We know from major media outlets that the Bass child was locked in a small bathroom without running water–a small bathroom roughly the shape of a closet. We also know that the Bill Gothard organization–best known for its homeschooling wing, the Advanced Training Institutes of America (ATIA)–routinely generates survivor stories about people who are locked in what followers call the prayer closet. Besides the prayer closet, it’s well-known that Bill Gothard actively promotes other forms of Bible-based child abuse.

When I was thirteen, some family friends dragged me to a Bill Gothard Seminar in Basic Life Principles, and I remember being terrified by the prospect of the “prayer closet.” Given the horrific stories about how it has been used as a mechanism of abuse, I think my terror was fairly well-justified. Further, it would not surprised me if the Bass family conceived of their torture chamber as an amped up sort of prayer closet.

Beyond this, though, the girl says that part of her torture involved beatings with metal rods. Metal rods could not elude Child Protective Serivices, but Christian Fundamentalist literature abounds with tips about how parents may abuse children without being detected by the police. Debi Pearl, a relatively “mainstream” Quiverfull activist offers this lovely tidbit (h/t Daily Kos):

As a rule, do not use your hand. Hands are for loving and helping. If an adult swings his or her hand fast enough to cause pain to the surface of the skin, there is a danger of damaging bones and joints. The most painful nerves are just under the surface of the skin. A swift swat with a light, flexible instrument will sting without bruising or causing internal damage. Many people are using a section of ¼ inch plumber’s supply line as a spanking instrument. It will fit in your purse or hang around you neck. You can buy them for under $1.00 at Home Depot or any hardware store. They come cheaper by the dozen and can be widely distributed in every room and vehicle. Just the high profile of their accessibility keeps the kids in line.

From the various reading that I’ve done on the subject, I know that beatings with various kinds of rods are not uncommon among Quiverfull families. And, so… I’m still wondering… Are Scott and Andrea Bass isolated cases of the abusive personality? Or are they, rather, adherents of an orthodoxy that seems to systematically lead to certain types of abuse?

It’s possible that my assumptions here have no factual basis in truth. But if this is a Quiverfull family (And several specific facts of this case suggest that it may be.), I think the mainstream media needs to kill its blackout on the subject and name this for what it is: one more case of Quiverfull-encouraged religious abuse. I know that this isn’t a high traffic blog, but I do want to throw the question out there to people who may know more about the subculture than I do: Is the Bass family a Quiverfull family? Do the parallels between their methods of abuse and the Gothard-sanctioned methods seem uncanny to anyone else out there? Anyone?

Update: More clues have surfaced that continue to point, at minimum, to this family’s involvement in Christian fundamentalism. According to Arizona Family, Andrea Bass has a long history of religiously-motivated child abuse:

Court paperwork shows that Andrea Bass, 31, has a history of domestic violence and kidnapping. According to that paperwork, Child Protective Services in California removed children after the alleged exorcism of a child and a child who was kept outside the home for months. Police said Andrea Bass told them she had 15 prior reports with Child Protective Services…

According to court paperwork, this is not the first time the teen has been locked up. She told police that when her family lived in an apartment in Glendale, she was forced to sleep outside on the patio for months. She also said she was locked in a bathroom for a week and in a closet for a week. Police said Andrea Bass admitted to locking the girl in the bathroom and closet at that apartment, as well as locking her outside for a week during the summer.”

In related news, the recent death of a child in California was orchestrated in ways eerily reminiscent of what we are learning about allegations against Scott and Andrea Bass.

(h/t Jennie and dangermom at at the No Longer Quivering Forum)

KM blogs about Christian fundamentalism and various other things that infuriate her as She Keeps Bees.

This article was originally posted at She Keeps Bees and No Longer Quivering.

Why Michelle Duggar can’t say, “We’re done!”

“We’ll just wait and see what God has in store.” ~ Michelle Duggar, People, Feb. 8, 2010

As a former Quiverfull mom of seven, I’ve had such a variety of birth experiences ~ emergency c-sections, scheduled repeat c-sections, failed homebirth attempt, successful homebirth (after four cesareans!), hospital VBAC, and with my last birth ~ which I had planned to have unassisted at home, I ended up with a 5th c-section due to partial uterine rupture.

My complicated birthing history made living out the Quiverfull ideal of “leaving my fertility in the Lord’s hands” all the more challenging ~ and one of the toughest things for me to handle was all the well-meaning friends, family, and complete strangers who looked at what I’d already been through physically and asked the obvious question:

“Aren’t you done yet?!!!!”

This is the question everyone’s asking Mama Duggar of “19 Kids and Counting” – TLC fame. And Michelle’s response in the current issue of People Magazine ~ “We’ll just wait and see what God has in store” ~ is exactly how I used to answer the concerned questioners too.

At one point, my own mother stood at the foot of my hospital bed and, with tears rolling down her cheeks, begged me not to get pregnant again. “This is too hard on you, Vyckie. What about the children you already have? You need to be alive and healthy to take care of them!!”

Despite the pain and misery I suffered ~ not to mention the very real danger to myself and my children ~ I had three more babies.

After the partial uterine rupture, it seemed so obvious to everyone that I ought to be done for sure. How many times did I hear: Surely God will let you off the hook now ~ He would want you to protect your health to ensure that you’ll be around to care for the seven already-born children He has blessed you with?

“Seems to me that God’s made it very clear what He wants,” quipped the baby doctor the morning after I’d nearly left Warren a widowed father of six children here on earth and one with me in heaven.

Well ~ it certainly was not clear to me. I still had a uterus, after all. If God didn’t want me to use it, why didn’t He guide the hands of the surgeon to give me a hysterectomy?

You see, once a woman’s mind grasps the concept of “trusting the Lord” with her reproductive life ~ absolutely nothing is ever simple or obvious again. The Quiverfull philosophy is an alluring and powerful spell ~ and the woman so enchanted feels the euphoria of the “Big Happy Family,” she is seduced by a vision of chivalrous men and genteel ladies, tempted by the promise of God’s protection and provision, and she knows the sheer ecstasy of inhaling deeply the ambrosial smell of yet another newborn.

So it’s no surprise that despite preeclampsia, gallstones, and a micro-preemie baby, Michelle’s still determined to leave it up to God whether there’ll be a twentieth Duggar baby or not. That she ought to stop now is glaringly obvious to everyone but Michelle and the Quiverfullers who are similarly beguiled. Having been there and done that (got pregnant twice again after the partial uterine rupture), I’m inclined to go easy on the lady. I think Michelle is doing her best to live consistently according to the worldview of her firmly held Christian beliefs.

But I’m not backing off on my efforts here at NLQ to expose the delusion which has Michelle so captivated that she’s continuing to take unneccesary and irresponsible risks. Bill Gothard, whose “biblical family values” have strongly influenced the Duggars, has never been married and has no children. This man, along with other Quiverfull leaders such as Doug Phillips, Doug Wilson, Voddie Baucham, etc. need to be held accountable for the teachings they are calling “biblical” ~ teachings that trap women in a mental headspace in which common sense and gut feelings are to be distrusted and ignored.

That’s what we’re doing here at No Longer Quivering ~ exposing the teachings and calling the teachers to account for the devastation the Quiverfull philosophy has wreaked upon countless faithful, godly families. Through our Take Heart Project, we are here for disenchanted women for whom the overwhelmingly harsh, demanding, and soul-destroying reality of “trusting God” with their family planning finally breaks the spell and rouses them from the Quiverfull dreamland.

I’ve skipped church four Sundays in a row now and I’m feeling slightly guilty.  It’s freezing-ass cold here in Nebraska, and I just have been too lazy to scoop the driveway and drag myself and all my kids out in sub-zero temps. Considering that I stopped believing in God over two years ago, it seems rather weird that I still spend my Sunday mornings attending the local Salvation Army worship services.

So why don’t I just quit going?

I didn’t leave Christianity because of any failure of the people. For the most part, I found the Christians I knew to be sincere, generous and supportive.  Misguided and unrealistic, maybe – but hey, that was me too.

It was the Bible and Christian doctrine which I finally recognized as ridiculous and even abusive.  Through the years, I had become more and more fundamentalist in my beliefs and practices.  My diligent study of the scriptures led me to adopt the strict gender roles and patriarchal family model of the Quiverfull movement as God’s perfect will for godly men and women.  I accepted all the pregnancies which the Lord chose to bless me with, homeschooled my children and “dared to shelter” them from ungodly influences of the world, and for over a decade I obediently submitted to the “head” of our home: my controlling and abusive husband.

It was a stressful and unsustainable lifestyle which led to near breakdown for me – and a suicide attempt for my oldest daughter.

When I first deconverted, I continued to go to church because the pastor had been especially supportive during the ugly custody battle when I filed for divorce.

About six months after the divorce, the pastor was transferred and the church got a new husband / wife team - Salvation Army officers, Lieutenants Heather & Xavier.  I had decided to continue going to church through the summer so that the kids could go to the camps (sports, music, and adventure camps) for free. But I decided to be upfront with Heather and let her know right away that I don’t believe in Christianity anymore. (I knew I had to say something before they tried to recruit me to teach the kids’ Sunday School – wouldn’t that be a hoot?!)

At first, she didn’t believe that I seriously don’t believe – but we really hit it off and became friends fairly quickly.  We go out for coffee or lunch together at least once a week. We’ve been doing this for about a year and a half now and it didn’t take long for me to say what I had to say about my unbelief and her to say what she had to say – and now it doesn’t really come up much in our conversation.  Not that we’re avoiding it – just that we’ve kind of moved past that and just enjoy our friendship.  We have a lot in common and so there’s always plenty to talk about.

Heather is the sort of Christian whom, in my fundie days, I’d have considered a shallow, “feel good” believer.  She loves Jesus and is committed to serving Him, yes – but she is not a strict fundamentalist and doesn’t take every word of the Bible literally.

I asked Heather once what it means to her that, as Paul says, the man is the head of the home. Does that mean Xavier gets to make the final decision whenever you two can’t come to an agreement on a particular issue? “No,” she responded. She paused to think about it for a minute, and then told me, “I guess I don’t really know what it means.” I appreciate her honesty.

I also appreciate that as Salvation Army officers, my pastors are truly the “roll-up-their-sleeves-and-get-the-job-done” type of Christians.  If they must say a prayer as they distribute food, clothing, school supplies, etc. to the needy – so be it.  If they give a little Bible study as they’re opening up the mobile canteen – that does not offend me.  Lieutenants Heather & Xavier will soon be leaving for Haiti to assist in doing what the Salvation Army does in emergency situations.  Better they do that, than waste time writing up a sermon to explain all the whys and wherefores of the disaster as it relates to God and the Bible.

At first, continuing to go to church was sort of a confirmation for me that I really didn’t believe any of it any more.  All at once, it all seemed so twisted to me that I thought, “I must have misunderstood what they are teaching.  Surely, no-one really believes this?”  So I’d go to church and listen carefully, and sure enough – that’s exactly what they’re teaching.  It helped me to feel confident that what I don’t believe isn’t just a straw man – some wacko God that only I believed in while other Christians have a more “balanced” view of the bible, Jesus, etc.

So initially church was still interesting enough – but now I’m to the point that it is literally physically and mentally painful for me to make it through the morning service.  I can’t “in good conscience” participate – which makes it a frustrating and awkward experience. The words to the songs are sick and mortifying.  Praise and worship used to be my favorite thing because I love music, and praise just comes so easily for me.  So I want to sing and dance – but I don’t want to sing about what a worm I am or how thankful I am for Jesus’ shed blood, etc.  A lot of the Salvation Army songs include “battle” language which makes me cringe. So that’s something to be endured.  Prayer time is tricky too.  They take prayer requests from the congregation and I never raise my hand.  When it’s time to pray, I don’t bow my head or close my eyes.

Anyway, I’m still going to church because that’s where my social life is (mostly).  I love the people there – and I really like Hearther.  There’s always lunch in the “Sally Ann” soup kitchen after church and that’s when I have a truly fun and enjoyable time visiting with all my down-on-their-luck friends.  There are also other activities that we do together which the children and I like: picnics, movie night, etc.  It is getting more uncomfortable for me all the time.  Xavier is certain that this is because I’m feeling the conviction of the Holy Spirit – which is truthfully, horseshit.

Lately though, I’ve been thinking that there’s another reason why I still go to church and might continue for some time to come.  As an ex-Christian, I sometimes feel like the lame, half-witted child which a nice respectable family might want to tuck quietly away in a distant care facility to avoid the embarrassment of having to explain how their well-bred DNA could result in such a deformed, mutated offspring.

On my No Longer Quivering blog, I have been fairly vocal about the family-destroying Quiverfull teachings – which, I maintain, is nothing more than basic Christian doctrine lived out to its logical conclusions.  And it often seems to me that Christians would prefer that I would just quietly disappear – stay home on Sundays and pretend that it was all a bad dream.

But I haven’t gone away.  Which means they still have to think about me – have to explain me.

They see me, they know me – I am a real person – same as them.

For their part, Heather & Xavier have been thoughtful and gracious.  Despite my “defects” of divorce, loss of faith, etc., they still claim me and do not dismiss my experience by arguing that I was never really a True Christian.  They are careful that in their teachings, they do not promulgate the patriarchal set-up which has devastated countless marital relationships through the centuries (mine included) – even if it means they have to ignore or torturously “reinterpret” the bible verses which historically have been used to support such sexism.

Conversely, remaining in close contact with practicing Christians helps me to remember that they do what they’re doing for all the same reasons that used to motivate me too: a sincere heart and genuine desire to love the Lord and to love their neighbors.  This keeps me from building up a caricature of “Christian people” in my own mind whom I must fight against and expose as deluded and hypocritical.

I see them, I know them – they are real people – same as me.

So when I write or speak about the evils of Christian fundamentalism and biblical literalism, I’m talking about words, ideas, beliefs, thoughts which affect and influence the flesh-and-blood people who listen to these abstractions and take them to heart.  The people themselves – they’re just like me; eager to know the truth and to do right.

Does this make sense?  Or am I, in true fundamentalist fashion, twisting my brain in knots in an effort to justify something obviously and utterly ridiculous?  Perhaps what I need is an Atheist Churchgoers’ 12-Step recovery group:

Hi. My name is Vyckie.  I am an atheist and I go to church.