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> <channel><title>Comments on: Legal Observer Arrested by Arpaio Deputies During AZ Protests</title> <atom:link href="http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/30/legal-observer-arrested-by-arpaio-deputies-during-az-protests/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/30/legal-observer-arrested-by-arpaio-deputies-during-az-protests/</link> <description></description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 16:53:27 -0700</lastBuildDate> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <item><title>By: gnat</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/30/legal-observer-arrested-by-arpaio-deputies-during-az-protests/#comment-29417</link> <dc:creator>gnat</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 00:05:54 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13489#comment-29417</guid> <description>Yep - you may be right. I heard on the news that several protestors were arrested for &quot;refusing to obey a police officer&#039;s command to clear an entrance&quot; (to a building or office I suppose). Bets are she was one of them. And of course they let them all go a few hours later. So - in other words - Sheriff Joe just being Sheriff Joe.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep &#8211; you may be right. I heard on the news that several protestors were arrested for &#8220;refusing to obey a police officer&#39;s command to clear an entrance&#8221; (to a building or office I suppose). Bets are she was one of them. And of course they let them all go a few hours later. So &#8211; in other words &#8211; Sheriff Joe just being Sheriff Joe.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Quannah</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/30/legal-observer-arrested-by-arpaio-deputies-during-az-protests/#comment-29414</link> <dc:creator>Quannah</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 23:35:31 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13489#comment-29414</guid> <description>They convened a grand jury in January, and investigations are going forward. Grand jury information is secret, so we won&#039;t hear much about this until they start prosecution. You need more than allegations to convict someone, and collecting evidence and testimony to build a case takes time. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The FBI are conducting a separate investigation into civil rights violations.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Because the grand jury is from Phoenix, it isn&#039;t a sure thing that he would be indicted even if he is guilty (which I believe he is). The FBI is a totally different thing, though.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They convened a grand jury in January, and investigations are going forward. Grand jury information is secret, so we won&#39;t hear much about this until they start prosecution. You need more than allegations to convict someone, and collecting evidence and testimony to build a case takes time.</p><p>The FBI are conducting a separate investigation into civil rights violations.</p><p>Because the grand jury is from Phoenix, it isn&#39;t a sure thing that he would be indicted even if he is guilty (which I believe he is). The FBI is a totally different thing, though.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: jdlech</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/30/legal-observer-arrested-by-arpaio-deputies-during-az-protests/#comment-29406</link> <dc:creator>jdlech</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:08:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13489#comment-29406</guid> <description>Don&#039;t believe it&#039;s an artifice of the left only.  I watched a video tape of a guy on a bridge firing down on the street below.  The news called him an anarchist firing on a crowd.  But then another video surfaced showing him firing on an empty street.  It turns out, the government produced the first video and released it to the news for propaganda purposes.  But they did not notice a guy with a video cam who thought it curious enough that some guy would be firing on an empty street that he video taped it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The news was used to justify a crack down on dissidents where many were arrested, and a few were even murdered.&lt;br&gt;And for your information, the SCOTUS can only strike down the whole law or not at all.  It cannot strike down parts of it while leaving other parts of it intact.  The only way they can do that is if each part were passed and signed as separate laws.&lt;br&gt;And you&#039;re supposed to be a constitutionalist without knowing this?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#39;t believe it&#39;s an artifice of the left only.  I watched a video tape of a guy on a bridge firing down on the street below.  The news called him an anarchist firing on a crowd.  But then another video surfaced showing him firing on an empty street.  It turns out, the government produced the first video and released it to the news for propaganda purposes.  But they did not notice a guy with a video cam who thought it curious enough that some guy would be firing on an empty street that he video taped it.</p><p>The news was used to justify a crack down on dissidents where many were arrested, and a few were even murdered.<br
/>And for your information, the SCOTUS can only strike down the whole law or not at all.  It cannot strike down parts of it while leaving other parts of it intact.  The only way they can do that is if each part were passed and signed as separate laws.<br
/>And you&#39;re supposed to be a constitutionalist without knowing this?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: jdlech</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/30/legal-observer-arrested-by-arpaio-deputies-during-az-protests/#comment-29405</link> <dc:creator>jdlech</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:01:05 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13489#comment-29405</guid> <description>There is one defense, video vigilantism.  I&#039;m a big fan of it.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is one defense, video vigilantism.  I&#39;m a big fan of it.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Joshua_Holland</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/30/legal-observer-arrested-by-arpaio-deputies-during-az-protests/#comment-29387</link> <dc:creator>Joshua_Holland</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 19:48:38 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13489#comment-29387</guid> <description>I don&#039;t suppose they can.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I saw a &quot;black bloc&quot; member throw a can at a police line in Miami, and when the cops moved in he took a badge out of his shirt and switched sides.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t suppose they can.</p><p>I saw a &#8220;black bloc&#8221; member throw a can at a police line in Miami, and when the cops moved in he took a badge out of his shirt and switched sides.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: jdlech</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/30/legal-observer-arrested-by-arpaio-deputies-during-az-protests/#comment-29361</link> <dc:creator>jdlech</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 17:11:54 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13489#comment-29361</guid> <description>No, I did not mean her.  You vouched for her already and that&#039;s good enough for me (I&#039;m pretty sure you&#039;re not an impostor).  But the question remains; how could the average Joe Protester tell if someone is a plant or not?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I did not mean her.  You vouched for her already and that&#39;s good enough for me (I&#39;m pretty sure you&#39;re not an impostor).  But the question remains; how could the average Joe Protester tell if someone is a plant or not?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: jennewinn</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/30/legal-observer-arrested-by-arpaio-deputies-during-az-protests/#comment-29360</link> <dc:creator>jennewinn</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 17:09:22 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13489#comment-29360</guid> <description>What is the DOJ waiting for?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If only half of what I have read is true - and I don&#039;t for a moment suppose I know all there is to know - they could have had him behind bars ages ago.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Assuming they had wanted to.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the DOJ waiting for?</p><p>If only half of what I have read is true &#8211; and I don&#39;t for a moment suppose I know all there is to know &#8211; they could have had him behind bars ages ago.</p><p>Assuming they had wanted to.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: aahpat</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/30/legal-observer-arrested-by-arpaio-deputies-during-az-protests/#comment-29345</link> <dc:creator>aahpat</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 14:25:27 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13489#comment-29345</guid> <description>People who organize and participate in social justice protests are generally not playing childish games. Especially not with police.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Political theater is directed more appropriately at the media and onlookers rather than at antagonizing police.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In more civilized communities police assigned to protest rallies are there to keep the peace and protect the safely of all participants.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Antagonizing police does not advance any social justice cause. Ever.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That said, the one group of anti Vietnam protesters who were more effective, in protest and theater, were the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. This was so because police and politicians, especially Nixon himself, had an extremely high level of respect for veterans who had put themselves on the line for America. The VVAW people usually did not use their Class-A dress uniforms for theater. Its a respect thing.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People who organize and participate in social justice protests are generally not playing childish games. Especially not with police.</p><p>Political theater is directed more appropriately at the media and onlookers rather than at antagonizing police.</p><p>In more civilized communities police assigned to protest rallies are there to keep the peace and protect the safely of all participants.</p><p>Antagonizing police does not advance any social justice cause. Ever.</p><p>That said, the one group of anti Vietnam protesters who were more effective, in protest and theater, were the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. This was so because police and politicians, especially Nixon himself, had an extremely high level of respect for veterans who had put themselves on the line for America. The VVAW people usually did not use their Class-A dress uniforms for theater. Its a respect thing.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: doubtom</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/30/legal-observer-arrested-by-arpaio-deputies-during-az-protests/#comment-29338</link> <dc:creator>doubtom</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:20:20 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13489#comment-29338</guid> <description>I know what migration is Quannah, I defined it adequately.  And it is  &lt;br&gt;a &quot;legal&quot; difference, except to those who would confuse the two for  &lt;br&gt;their own purposes.  There&#039;s nothing legal or illegal about migration,  &lt;br&gt;as I&#039;ve indicated.  Immigration, on the other hand, speaks to a legal  &lt;br&gt;process involving human beings with specific intentions of adopting a  &lt;br&gt;new country and forsaking the old; likewise, it doesn&#039;t just imply a  &lt;br&gt;change of allegiance, it requires it!  Animals may migrate all they  &lt;br&gt;want but when humans do it, it has consequences and those consequences  &lt;br&gt;are legal in nature.  OK?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My point is that there is no such category as &quot;illegal immigrant&quot;; it  &lt;br&gt;is a contradiction in terms.  Those who are whining for amnesty for  &lt;br&gt;the Mexican &quot;invasion&quot;, which is what it is, would prefer to use the  &lt;br&gt;term &quot;immigrant&quot; for the obvious reason that it tends to lend some  &lt;br&gt;respectability to what is essentially an illegal act , whether they  &lt;br&gt;actually crashed the border or simply overstayed a visa.  Now as to  &lt;br&gt;the degree of the crime, that&#039;s another matter, but whether  &lt;br&gt;misdemeanor or felony, it is criminal activity and it is not erased by  &lt;br&gt;simply ignoring it and calling them immigrants, when that process is  &lt;br&gt;exactly what they are willingly circumventing.   Are we clear on my  &lt;br&gt;point of view?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My point is also that there is no need for immigration reform and  &lt;br&gt;certainly none for &quot;comprehensive reform&quot;.  No one has ever offered a  &lt;br&gt;reason for reform and certainly the system&#039;s inability to handle 12 to  &lt;br&gt;20 million illegal aliens is no indication of the need for reform.  As  &lt;br&gt;I&#039;ve indicated elsewhere, we have the most utilized immigration system  &lt;br&gt;in the world, so it should be obvious to even the most dull-witted  &lt;br&gt;that we have no need to reform the system.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The problem as everyone knows and which everyone ignores, like the  &lt;br&gt;elephant in the room, is that the Federal government has elected to  &lt;br&gt;sit idly by, not enforcing its borders, while the problem,  &lt;br&gt;predictably, got ever larger to the point where they can now say,  &lt;br&gt;well, its too big to handle so let&#039;s consider amnesty, thereby making  &lt;br&gt;a mockery of our laws, our borders, and our very sovereignty and  &lt;br&gt;guaranteeing in the process, that we will see yet another future  &lt;br&gt;invasion as countless millions of the Southern Hemisphere&#039;s poor  &lt;br&gt;correctly assess our lack of intention.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Mexico needs a revolution and shouldn&#039;t be allowed to foist its poor  &lt;br&gt;and oppressed citizens onto the next handy nation and then send the  &lt;br&gt;president no less, to arrogantly clamor for the &quot;rights&quot; of his  &lt;br&gt;citizens, those same &quot;rights&quot; that he&#039;s unwilling or incapable of  &lt;br&gt;providing them within his own nation.  This arrogant SOB has the nerve  &lt;br&gt;to demand &quot;rights&quot; for his citizens, while Mexico has been tagged by  &lt;br&gt;no less than Amnesty International, as among the worst offenders of  &lt;br&gt;immigrant&#039;s rights.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;No Quannah, this whole issue doesn&#039;t warrant any &quot;solutions&quot; it does  &lt;br&gt;scream for clarity, honest appraisal, and legal action ; devoid of  &lt;br&gt;phony compassion and whatever other emotion is being injected for the  &lt;br&gt;purpose of presenting the problem as anything but what it is, a mass  &lt;br&gt;demonstration of illegal activity because it suits Mexico&#039;s purpose.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;One, or a few illegal aliens, may be a task for the Border Patrol but  &lt;br&gt;an onslaught of 12 to 20 millions is an invasion, whether they came  &lt;br&gt;over in one fell swoop or incrementally in small numbers, doesn&#039;t  &lt;br&gt;detract from the enormity of the action.  Invasion is an act of war,   &lt;br&gt;and if anything, our State Department should have issued Mexico a  &lt;br&gt;&quot;cease and desist&quot; order a long time ago; that is if we had even one  &lt;br&gt;of our Departments functioning as designed by their charters;   the  &lt;br&gt;order failing, an ultimatum should have ensued, and military action  &lt;br&gt;should have enforced our order.  That&#039;s the way nations are designed,  &lt;br&gt;with borders and laws that must be observed if we&#039;re to have  &lt;br&gt;sovereignty; the alternative is the chaos you&#039;re now witnessing, as  &lt;br&gt;well-intentioned (for the most part) people attempt to put the  &lt;br&gt;toothpaste back in the tube.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We need a return to legal observance, not solutions to a system that  &lt;br&gt;has been purposely overburdened.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know what migration is Quannah, I defined it adequately.  And it is <br
/>a &#8220;legal&#8221; difference, except to those who would confuse the two for <br
/>their own purposes.  There&#39;s nothing legal or illegal about migration, <br
/>as I&#39;ve indicated.  Immigration, on the other hand, speaks to a legal <br
/>process involving human beings with specific intentions of adopting a <br
/>new country and forsaking the old; likewise, it doesn&#39;t just imply a <br
/>change of allegiance, it requires it!  Animals may migrate all they <br
/>want but when humans do it, it has consequences and those consequences <br
/>are legal in nature.  OK?</p><p>My point is that there is no such category as &#8220;illegal immigrant&#8221;; it <br
/>is a contradiction in terms.  Those who are whining for amnesty for <br
/>the Mexican &#8220;invasion&#8221;, which is what it is, would prefer to use the <br
/>term &#8220;immigrant&#8221; for the obvious reason that it tends to lend some <br
/>respectability to what is essentially an illegal act , whether they <br
/>actually crashed the border or simply overstayed a visa.  Now as to <br
/>the degree of the crime, that&#39;s another matter, but whether <br
/>misdemeanor or felony, it is criminal activity and it is not erased by <br
/>simply ignoring it and calling them immigrants, when that process is <br
/>exactly what they are willingly circumventing.   Are we clear on my <br
/>point of view?</p><p>My point is also that there is no need for immigration reform and <br
/>certainly none for &#8220;comprehensive reform&#8221;.  No one has ever offered a <br
/>reason for reform and certainly the system&#39;s inability to handle 12 to <br
/>20 million illegal aliens is no indication of the need for reform.  As <br
/>I&#39;ve indicated elsewhere, we have the most utilized immigration system <br
/>in the world, so it should be obvious to even the most dull-witted <br
/>that we have no need to reform the system.</p><p>The problem as everyone knows and which everyone ignores, like the <br
/>elephant in the room, is that the Federal government has elected to <br
/>sit idly by, not enforcing its borders, while the problem, <br
/>predictably, got ever larger to the point where they can now say, <br
/>well, its too big to handle so let&#39;s consider amnesty, thereby making <br
/>a mockery of our laws, our borders, and our very sovereignty and <br
/>guaranteeing in the process, that we will see yet another future <br
/>invasion as countless millions of the Southern Hemisphere&#39;s poor <br
/>correctly assess our lack of intention.</p><p>Mexico needs a revolution and shouldn&#39;t be allowed to foist its poor <br
/>and oppressed citizens onto the next handy nation and then send the <br
/>president no less, to arrogantly clamor for the &#8220;rights&#8221; of his <br
/>citizens, those same &#8220;rights&#8221; that he&#39;s unwilling or incapable of <br
/>providing them within his own nation.  This arrogant SOB has the nerve <br
/>to demand &#8220;rights&#8221; for his citizens, while Mexico has been tagged by <br
/>no less than Amnesty International, as among the worst offenders of <br
/>immigrant&#39;s rights.</p><p>No Quannah, this whole issue doesn&#39;t warrant any &#8220;solutions&#8221; it does <br
/>scream for clarity, honest appraisal, and legal action ; devoid of <br
/>phony compassion and whatever other emotion is being injected for the <br
/>purpose of presenting the problem as anything but what it is, a mass <br
/>demonstration of illegal activity because it suits Mexico&#39;s purpose.</p><p>One, or a few illegal aliens, may be a task for the Border Patrol but <br
/>an onslaught of 12 to 20 millions is an invasion, whether they came <br
/>over in one fell swoop or incrementally in small numbers, doesn&#39;t <br
/>detract from the enormity of the action.  Invasion is an act of war, <br
/>and if anything, our State Department should have issued Mexico a <br
/>&#8220;cease and desist&#8221; order a long time ago; that is if we had even one <br
/>of our Departments functioning as designed by their charters;   the <br
/>order failing, an ultimatum should have ensued, and military action <br
/>should have enforced our order.  That&#39;s the way nations are designed, <br
/>with borders and laws that must be observed if we&#39;re to have <br
/>sovereignty; the alternative is the chaos you&#39;re now witnessing, as <br
/>well-intentioned (for the most part) people attempt to put the <br
/>toothpaste back in the tube.</p><p>We need a return to legal observance, not solutions to a system that <br
/>has been purposely overburdened.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Joshua_Holland</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/30/legal-observer-arrested-by-arpaio-deputies-during-az-protests/#comment-29337</link> <dc:creator>Joshua_Holland</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:18:38 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13489#comment-29337</guid> <description>Aye. OK, an English language lesson.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The words &quot;migrant,&quot; &quot;immigrant&quot; and &quot;emigrant&quot; have nothing to do with legality. They share the same root, and their variations describe &lt;i&gt;direction&lt;/i&gt;. A &quot;migrant&quot; is someone who moves from one country to another (or one region to another, or, in the animal kingdom, one habitat to another). An &quot;immigrant&quot; is someone who moved from another country to this one (or an animal that moved from another habitat to this one). An &quot;emigrant&quot; is someone who moved from this country to another (or an animal that moved from this habitat to another one). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We&#039;re in the U.S., so in discussing migrants who came from another country to this one we use the word &quot;immigrants.&quot; Again, that has nothing to do with the law, which is why we often use an adjective like &quot;legal,&quot; &quot;illegal,&quot; &quot;unauthorized,&quot; &quot;undocumented,&quot; etc.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Clear now?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aye. OK, an English language lesson.</p><p>The words &#8220;migrant,&#8221; &#8220;immigrant&#8221; and &#8220;emigrant&#8221; have nothing to do with legality. They share the same root, and their variations describe <i>direction</i>. A &#8220;migrant&#8221; is someone who moves from one country to another (or one region to another, or, in the animal kingdom, one habitat to another). An &#8220;immigrant&#8221; is someone who moved from another country to this one (or an animal that moved from another habitat to this one). An &#8220;emigrant&#8221; is someone who moved from this country to another (or an animal that moved from this habitat to another one).</p><p>We&#39;re in the U.S., so in discussing migrants who came from another country to this one we use the word &#8220;immigrants.&#8221; Again, that has nothing to do with the law, which is why we often use an adjective like &#8220;legal,&#8221; &#8220;illegal,&#8221; &#8220;unauthorized,&#8221; &#8220;undocumented,&#8221; etc.</p><p>Clear now?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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