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> <channel><title>Comments on: Slouching Towards Eugenics? The Evolutionary Origins of &#8220;Ghetto Related&#8221; Behaviors</title> <atom:link href="http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/28/slouching-towards-eugenics-the-evolutionary-origins-of-ghetto-related-behaviors/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/28/slouching-towards-eugenics-the-evolutionary-origins-of-ghetto-related-behaviors/</link> <description></description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 16:53:27 -0700</lastBuildDate> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <item><title>By: RR#1</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/28/slouching-towards-eugenics-the-evolutionary-origins-of-ghetto-related-behaviors/#comment-30257</link> <dc:creator>RR#1</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 06:04:50 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13368#comment-30257</guid> <description>Science is supposed to reveal the truth about material reality I suppose that is a workable explaination.  An opinion trying to pass off itself as truth eventually is proven to be nothing more than a prejudice.  Science is not a truth claim competing with other equally valid truth claims-it has to have a material referent. It is also the one language that is universal, pays no heed to nationality or &quot;race&quot; means the same in India as it does in New Jersey.  The science that we have today is subject to the profit imperative and deforming that relationship the same way as it deforms all of our other relationships, with ourselves, our fellows and our planet.  We are going to have to change our political economy before we can use the science that we have to optimize the human condition rather than use it to subjugate others including our environment.  I don&#039;t know if we are going to make it as we have to make the changes now to avoid catastrophe in 50 years which is like the blink of an eye.  And the fact that we can still debate these types of questions....poor because of genetics...WoW...it wasn&#039;t that long ago that  that argument was put to bed and now it is back again.  This economic downturn is getting uglier by the day&lt;br&gt;RR</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Science is supposed to reveal the truth about material reality I suppose that is a workable explaination.  An opinion trying to pass off itself as truth eventually is proven to be nothing more than a prejudice.  Science is not a truth claim competing with other equally valid truth claims-it has to have a material referent. It is also the one language that is universal, pays no heed to nationality or &#8220;race&#8221; means the same in India as it does in New Jersey.  The science that we have today is subject to the profit imperative and deforming that relationship the same way as it deforms all of our other relationships, with ourselves, our fellows and our planet.  We are going to have to change our political economy before we can use the science that we have to optimize the human condition rather than use it to subjugate others including our environment.  I don&#39;t know if we are going to make it as we have to make the changes now to avoid catastrophe in 50 years which is like the blink of an eye.  And the fact that we can still debate these types of questions&#8230;.poor because of genetics&#8230;WoW&#8230;it wasn&#39;t that long ago that  that argument was put to bed and now it is back again.  This economic downturn is getting uglier by the day<br
/>RR</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: chauncey devega</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/28/slouching-towards-eugenics-the-evolutionary-origins-of-ghetto-related-behaviors/#comment-29045</link> <dc:creator>chauncey devega</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 05:04:52 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13368#comment-29045</guid> <description>I don&#039;t often respond to posts, but I appreciate your point. Thoughts and examples: eugenics? race science? the chain of being? etc. etc. I signal to the reality that science and elite knowledge worked against Jim Crow, but there was also established &quot;scientific knowledge&quot; that has more often than not represented a standing opinion--a truth that goes unquestioned--and that supports power against the dis-empowered.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I guess it comes down to one&#039;s definition of &quot;science?&quot; No?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t often respond to posts, but I appreciate your point. Thoughts and examples: eugenics? race science? the chain of being? etc. etc. I signal to the reality that science and elite knowledge worked against Jim Crow, but there was also established &#8220;scientific knowledge&#8221; that has more often than not represented a standing opinion&#8211;a truth that goes unquestioned&#8211;and that supports power against the dis-empowered.</p><p>I guess it comes down to one&#39;s definition of &#8220;science?&#8221; No?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: jcmontalbano</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/28/slouching-towards-eugenics-the-evolutionary-origins-of-ghetto-related-behaviors/#comment-28925</link> <dc:creator>jcmontalbano</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:07:54 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13368#comment-28925</guid> <description>&quot;Ultimately, because science is &#039;a regime of knowledge,&#039; it serves elite interests.&quot; &lt;br&gt;What on earth are you talking about? Religion, kings, and fascists hate science precisely because it undermines them. Knowledge of the real world undermines anyone&#039;s claim that they deserve to oppress others. Geology and evolution destroyed the theocracies and their kings with them, sociology and psychology disprove all the twisted logic that leads to Jim Crow laws, climatology and economics are opposed to corporations. You&#039;re being ridiculous here.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Ultimately, because science is &#39;a regime of knowledge,&#39; it serves elite interests.&#8221; <br
/>What on earth are you talking about? Religion, kings, and fascists hate science precisely because it undermines them. Knowledge of the real world undermines anyone&#39;s claim that they deserve to oppress others. Geology and evolution destroyed the theocracies and their kings with them, sociology and psychology disprove all the twisted logic that leads to Jim Crow laws, climatology and economics are opposed to corporations. You&#39;re being ridiculous here.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: balanchine</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/28/slouching-towards-eugenics-the-evolutionary-origins-of-ghetto-related-behaviors/#comment-28746</link> <dc:creator>balanchine</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:24:52 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13368#comment-28746</guid> <description>How about we retire the phrase &quot;slouching towards&quot; unless quoting Yeats?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about we retire the phrase &#8220;slouching towards&#8221; unless quoting Yeats?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Drclaw</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/28/slouching-towards-eugenics-the-evolutionary-origins-of-ghetto-related-behaviors/#comment-28733</link> <dc:creator>Drclaw</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:19:24 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13368#comment-28733</guid> <description>nicely done</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nicely done</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: annacatherine</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/28/slouching-towards-eugenics-the-evolutionary-origins-of-ghetto-related-behaviors/#comment-28732</link> <dc:creator>annacatherine</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:15:45 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13368#comment-28732</guid> <description>I grew up in Newark, NJ and watched it deteriorate over the decades. As best I can tell no one seized he opportunity to use the event as a way to influence the black children. By that I mean: Is this any way to live? Instead anger was allowed to fester and the ghetto culture was born. There was no pressure on these kids to do well in school. It didn&#039;t take long for the young people to realize that &quot;they didn&#039;t matter&quot;.  Getting them to attend school regularly was impossible. But know what, getting the teachers to show up was no easier. They were actually rewarded for 30 consecutive days attendance. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Well just last week a former Montclair man (black) was murdered by a police detective (white) in Branch Brook Park. The story was updated about every two hours  and each update consisted of a new version of the facts. By story #6 they found a version that they could agree on. The man and his reputation were destroyed, but the detective remains in good standing. This man was victim #9 in Newark so far this year. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;How do children or adults for that matter get motivated to change their lifestyle when they are so de-valued? There&#039;s a pervasive attitude of &quot;that&#039;s all there is&quot; . Why bother. I&#039;m not for giveaways, but it&#039;s wrong to remove every chance that people have at getting out of a lifestyle that shouldn&#039;t even exist. The boys expect to spend some time in jail and the girls will have babies. Nobody seems to dispute that with them. It&#039;s their idea of &#039;growing up&#039;.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I grew up in Newark, NJ and watched it deteriorate over the decades. As best I can tell no one seized he opportunity to use the event as a way to influence the black children. By that I mean: Is this any way to live? Instead anger was allowed to fester and the ghetto culture was born. There was no pressure on these kids to do well in school. It didn&#39;t take long for the young people to realize that &#8220;they didn&#39;t matter&#8221;.  Getting them to attend school regularly was impossible. But know what, getting the teachers to show up was no easier. They were actually rewarded for 30 consecutive days attendance.</p><p>Well just last week a former Montclair man (black) was murdered by a police detective (white) in Branch Brook Park. The story was updated about every two hours  and each update consisted of a new version of the facts. By story #6 they found a version that they could agree on. The man and his reputation were destroyed, but the detective remains in good standing. This man was victim #9 in Newark so far this year.</p><p>How do children or adults for that matter get motivated to change their lifestyle when they are so de-valued? There&#39;s a pervasive attitude of &#8220;that&#39;s all there is&#8221; . Why bother. I&#39;m not for giveaways, but it&#39;s wrong to remove every chance that people have at getting out of a lifestyle that shouldn&#39;t even exist. The boys expect to spend some time in jail and the girls will have babies. Nobody seems to dispute that with them. It&#39;s their idea of &#39;growing up&#39;.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: rustycannon</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/28/slouching-towards-eugenics-the-evolutionary-origins-of-ghetto-related-behaviors/#comment-28707</link> <dc:creator>rustycannon</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:37:10 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13368#comment-28707</guid> <description>&quot;Conspicuous consumption and spending one’s resources on overpriced sneakers, expensive clothes, and a rented Mercedes when one lives in a poor neighborhood and has no savings in the bank, may actually be an optimal strategy in a signaling game with one’s similarly located peers.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I find it interesting that this stereotype is still associated with ghettos and racial minorities when the behavior has become mainstream. Some decades ago, if you drove a Cadillac and had no savings, you stood out if you lived in a poor neighborhood. But if you rented a house in a nice suburb and participated in the same behavior, no one batted an eye. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Now, as our middle class slides into underclass status, those pretty and clean suburban communities are becoming full of people who have no savings, yet lease the high status cars and make huge mortgage payments on homes they have very little equity in. Not much difference really, from the Cadillac in the ghetto, unless you consider the zip code and racial demographics.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Conspicuous consumption and spending one’s resources on overpriced sneakers, expensive clothes, and a rented Mercedes when one lives in a poor neighborhood and has no savings in the bank, may actually be an optimal strategy in a signaling game with one’s similarly located peers.&#8221;</p><p>I find it interesting that this stereotype is still associated with ghettos and racial minorities when the behavior has become mainstream. Some decades ago, if you drove a Cadillac and had no savings, you stood out if you lived in a poor neighborhood. But if you rented a house in a nice suburb and participated in the same behavior, no one batted an eye.</p><p>Now, as our middle class slides into underclass status, those pretty and clean suburban communities are becoming full of people who have no savings, yet lease the high status cars and make huge mortgage payments on homes they have very little equity in. Not much difference really, from the Cadillac in the ghetto, unless you consider the zip code and racial demographics.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: ProfBob</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/28/slouching-towards-eugenics-the-evolutionary-origins-of-ghetto-related-behaviors/#comment-28686</link> <dc:creator>ProfBob</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 08:18:35 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13368#comment-28686</guid> <description>There is no question that impoverished babies put a large financial and social cost on the rest of society-- in terms of prisons, gangs and unemployment because of a lack of education. It should not be a black/white thing. (However it might be noted that both blacks and whites have more criminality and create more social problems than do the Chinese and Japanese in the Western societies.) Political scientists who study the areas of equality and liberty realize that they are antithetical ideals. But our Western societies, particularly the welfare states  in Europe, have emphasized the equalitarian aspect of democracy. The US, by contrast, has more of a liberty--based idea. But then its constitution does not mention equality. Its The value of equality comes from its Declaration of independence  which is not a law but rather a call for revolution.&lt;br&gt;     If we are going to base our society on equalitarian principles then eugenics should not  play a part.  But neither  liberty nor  equality would preclude some sort of requirements for parenting, such as age or financial ability. The books of Dr. Jack Wellman, a child psychiatrist, or the proposals  in the free e-book series &quot;In Search of Utopia&quot; (&lt;a href=&quot;http://andgulliverreturns.info&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://andgulliverreturns.info&lt;/a&gt;) might be considered. The children deserve no less.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no question that impoverished babies put a large financial and social cost on the rest of society&#8211; in terms of prisons, gangs and unemployment because of a lack of education. It should not be a black/white thing. (However it might be noted that both blacks and whites have more criminality and create more social problems than do the Chinese and Japanese in the Western societies.) Political scientists who study the areas of equality and liberty realize that they are antithetical ideals. But our Western societies, particularly the welfare states  in Europe, have emphasized the equalitarian aspect of democracy. The US, by contrast, has more of a liberty&#8211;based idea. But then its constitution does not mention equality. Its The value of equality comes from its Declaration of independence  which is not a law but rather a call for revolution.<br
/> If we are going to base our society on equalitarian principles then eugenics should not  play a part.  But neither  liberty nor  equality would preclude some sort of requirements for parenting, such as age or financial ability. The books of Dr. Jack Wellman, a child psychiatrist, or the proposals  in the free e-book series &#8220;In Search of Utopia&#8221; (<a
href="http://andgulliverreturns.info" rel="nofollow">http://andgulliverreturns.info</a>) might be considered. The children deserve no less.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: lvyuyin</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/28/slouching-towards-eugenics-the-evolutionary-origins-of-ghetto-related-behaviors/#comment-28682</link> <dc:creator>lvyuyin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 06:44:39 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13368#comment-28682</guid> <description>discount  discount &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guccihandbagsale.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Gucci bags&lt;/a&gt;Replica Gucci is onefor cheap&lt;br&gt;Replica Gucci is one We guarantee to provide&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guccibagsale.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Gucci&lt;/a&gt; On sale We guarantee to provide</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>discount  discount <a
href="http://www.guccihandbagsale.org/" rel="nofollow">Gucci bags</a>Replica Gucci is onefor cheap<br
/>Replica Gucci is one We guarantee to provide<a
href="http://www.guccibagsale.org/" rel="nofollow">Gucci</a> On sale We guarantee to provide</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: paul_c</title><link>http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/28/slouching-towards-eugenics-the-evolutionary-origins-of-ghetto-related-behaviors/#comment-28667</link> <dc:creator>paul_c</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 03:05:38 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/?p=13368#comment-28667</guid> <description>I agree with what has been written here thus far.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;waytoomanybottlesofrum makes an important point about egalitarianism. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Look at the current dynamic regarding the ever eroding fortunes of the average American - the bottom 50% of Americans have 1% of the wealth while the top 1% have 83% of the wealth, and it keeps getting worse every year at an accelerating rate.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That is because money truly equates to power, and the ability of one group to persevere over another has nothing to do with how much wealth either group has independent of the other.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Rather, all that is required is that one group have &lt;b&gt;marginally&lt;/b&gt; more power than the other, for the former to be able to beat down and ultimately destroy the latter.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And this is precisely what has happened in the U.S., where corporate America organized an all-out war against the labor movement and middle class America and won.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Look at what happened in the time under Clinton when all Americans were being lifted up, but most dramatically the poor, and among them most notably poor minorities.  This was a non-linear, or disproportionate effect, suggesting that poverty exerts an inordinate burden on those so afflicted.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If the poor were genetically disfigured then that dynamic would not have occurred.  But we see this outcome again and again.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Another look at the same problem from a different angle is how corporate invaders turn healthy agrarian lifestyles of indiginous peoples upside down.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In the reference frame of developed countries these people are impoverished.  Yet, when corporations tear apart their world and make them dependent upon corporate dollars for survival, their lives become a living hell in which they become enslaved by their masters and they lose all control over their lives.  They also lose their sense of community and their sense of self worth.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We do the same to our poor.  Rather than empowering them we disempower them.  Rather than giving them hope we break down their control over their own lives.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That is because Capitalism is all about funneling money upwards by enslaving its workers.  And that is precisely what they have done.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So this whole discussion about eugenics is misplaced and on its face absurd.  We only have to look at the dynamics of the past 30 years to see what inequality does to a nation.  Or take a broader look at how tragically the reach of corporate power into undeveloped countries has utterly destroyed their lives.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Does anyone believe for a second that 40 percent of black males deserve to be felons?  Or is it because corporate America has made pot smoking a federal crime and has made crack smoking 100 times more illegal than cocaine, and has forced 95% of poor people arrested to take plea deals under threat of harsh prison sentences, all without adequate representation?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Talk of eugenics is the talk of those in power seeking to justify perceived gross inequities.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;peace,&lt;br&gt;Paul</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with what has been written here thus far.</p><p>waytoomanybottlesofrum makes an important point about egalitarianism.</p><p>Look at the current dynamic regarding the ever eroding fortunes of the average American &#8211; the bottom 50% of Americans have 1% of the wealth while the top 1% have 83% of the wealth, and it keeps getting worse every year at an accelerating rate.</p><p>That is because money truly equates to power, and the ability of one group to persevere over another has nothing to do with how much wealth either group has independent of the other.</p><p>Rather, all that is required is that one group have <b>marginally</b> more power than the other, for the former to be able to beat down and ultimately destroy the latter.</p><p>And this is precisely what has happened in the U.S., where corporate America organized an all-out war against the labor movement and middle class America and won.</p><p>Look at what happened in the time under Clinton when all Americans were being lifted up, but most dramatically the poor, and among them most notably poor minorities.  This was a non-linear, or disproportionate effect, suggesting that poverty exerts an inordinate burden on those so afflicted.</p><p>If the poor were genetically disfigured then that dynamic would not have occurred.  But we see this outcome again and again.</p><p>Another look at the same problem from a different angle is how corporate invaders turn healthy agrarian lifestyles of indiginous peoples upside down.</p><p>In the reference frame of developed countries these people are impoverished.  Yet, when corporations tear apart their world and make them dependent upon corporate dollars for survival, their lives become a living hell in which they become enslaved by their masters and they lose all control over their lives.  They also lose their sense of community and their sense of self worth.</p><p>We do the same to our poor.  Rather than empowering them we disempower them.  Rather than giving them hope we break down their control over their own lives.</p><p>That is because Capitalism is all about funneling money upwards by enslaving its workers.  And that is precisely what they have done.</p><p>So this whole discussion about eugenics is misplaced and on its face absurd.  We only have to look at the dynamics of the past 30 years to see what inequality does to a nation.  Or take a broader look at how tragically the reach of corporate power into undeveloped countries has utterly destroyed their lives.</p><p>Does anyone believe for a second that 40 percent of black males deserve to be felons?  Or is it because corporate America has made pot smoking a federal crime and has made crack smoking 100 times more illegal than cocaine, and has forced 95% of poor people arrested to take plea deals under threat of harsh prison sentences, all without adequate representation?</p><p>Talk of eugenics is the talk of those in power seeking to justify perceived gross inequities.</p><p>peace,<br
/>Paul</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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