A Progressive’s Case for a Green Party Strategy

Greenferret, THANK YOU for writing this! This is probably the best article I've ever seen. I will always vote green, even if I knew I had the tie-breaking vote in a swing state in a presidential election. Please, everyone, don't EVER waste your vote on a democrat ever again!

Still shortsighted and simplistic despite the overburdening of words.
1. There is not enough time to build a national party before our problems overtake us- indeed some already have(Citizens United).
2. Short shrift being dealt again to the democrats, who have laid piles of positive legislation from the democratic controlled House of Representatives at the Senate's door, only to have it all bottle-necked by crappy filibuster rules. Democrats, to their credit, have not yet used the "nuclear option", remember that? They did not, in case they lose control of the Senate. Wise but unproductive. Whose fault is this? The GOP.
3. Laying the "corporatist" horse collar on Obama . It's ungrateful and unrealistic to say this, after brand new Wall Street Regulations while not perfect begin to pull i the reins- and the appointment of Elizabeth Warren to be in charge of enforcement.
4. Health care is a good bill. I support the bill and Sen. Bernie Sanders does too, as well, as Dennis Kucinich. It's ridiculous to suppose that dismantling the private insurance industry during these economic times is anything that was going to happen. But the basics are in the law to eventually move toward a public option. We already have the 80-20% restriction coming into play in 2014. This will make the industry vastly different. And profiteers will go elsewhere.
5. Obama is quietly nudging Israel to a two-state solution that means something as written on other posts here.
6. I notice the ' green ' advocate calls for decentralization. this is the old Libertarian dog-whistle for doing what Grover Norquist has wet dreams about. Drowning the government in a bathtub is every Corporatist's pipe dream. Surprised a 'green' would advocate such a thing.
7. Nothing really new here one would'nt read on a Libertarian or Tea Bagger website. Ho Hum.

Close-minded, embittered reactionaries like bluetah are another reason to avoid the mainstream Dems. As I recall, the reason the Senate--with 60 sitting Democrats--couldn't break the chronic filibustering tactics of the extreme right wing was because they couldn't reign in the Max Baucuses, Ben Nelsons, and Blanche Lincolns, all of whom would have been seen as staunch conservatives a mere generation ago. As the article pointed out, quite clearly, the Democratic party has moved far to the right--and is now more legitimately, at least in the context of historical U.S. and contemporary European politics, a centrist-right entity, while the Republicans are bat-crap crazy evangelicals who bristle at the mere mention of taxes (while fully expecting all the infrastructure and security of modern nation-state). So, if you're content with the half-ass measures of a party that controlled both houses and the Presidency and had widespread national support and momentum after the brutal denouement to an administration that brought death and misery to thousands of the poorest Americans (our troops)--not to mention, to many, many thousands more of innocent civilians in the Middle East and Central Asia--turned a budget surplus into a massive deficit, and single-handededly trashed a great deal of our civil liberties (Habeas Corpus, warrentless wiretaps, etc.), then continue to vote for the center-right corporatists, who have effectively one nothing to reverse or even address any of these wrongs. "Ho Hum" to the mere suggestion of changing a system that's clearly broken? If you're satisfied with the financial reform bill, so are the bankers who continue to rake in billions of profits--and hundreds of millions of bonuses--for helping the likes Chevron and Halliburton poison large swaths of the planet. Everyone deserves much better solutions to all of these issues than those that have been devised by Obama and the Democrats. As the article, again, clearly pointed out, the massive inflow of corporate dollars into both parties leaves little recourse for those who believe that everyone in the country should have access to health care, that education should be funded more fully than wars, and that corporations and the super-rich should pay their fair share of taxes. Obama can't even bring himself to assert that the Bush tax cuts shouldn't be extended for the super-rich! At a time when the average CEO makes 275 times what his average worker makes, and when the top 1% control almost 30% of the wealth in this country, we need to tax the rich. Even returning to the Clinton-era levels is far cry from what was instituted until Reagan concocted the lies known as "supply-side" economics. But I imagine you have sympathy with the idea of trickle-down economics. Your president sure seems to. Finally, your comments about decentralization reveal either an ignorance of or a hostility to participatory democracy (or perhaps both). If you think your interests--rather than those of trans-national capital--are truly represented by the people who have legislated and worked in the executive branch over the past 20 years, fine, continue to cast your vote every other year and enjoy the games and American Idol showdowns in between. But please do actually look at a few Libertarian or Tea Bagger sites before you go invoking them. The lack of hostility toward women, Mexicans, and Muslims, as well as the soundly argued plans for reform of the electoral system and support of progressive causes--clearly distinguishes this article from that of the average brown shirt seduced by the Koch brothers to support the status quo until social security, public education, and any public health-care programs are things of the past, along with clean air and water. Enjoy. You've worked hard for this future.

Thank you for an excellent post. I have not been well enough to post anything coherent, especially on this thread. It was a mistake to even try seeing the title of the article. I'm in total agreement with you on every point you made and just glad you were able to make it concise, resoundingly pragmatic as well as showing an damn good bit of understanding about the current political realities. That someone like Sharon Angle, a woman who refuses to talk to the press and has called for "2nd amendment remedies" is actually winning in Nevada....jeeze, I never could have featured it in a million years much less a mere 2 after Bush/Cheney.

Thank you. The scribes and pharisees of the interwebs are taking me to task for a "cut and paste" job. I guess that's one of the penalties for having a good memory. It always galls me when someone complains and attempts to deconstruct current structures, while employing spurious stats and statements- especially while refusing to acknowledge what has been done- and even denying progress. This mania of misunderstanding leads to tea bags and wasted votes for narrow focus causes. It's kind of like using a vote as if it is a vanity license plate.
I am glad you are recovering, and look forward to reading your presentations as always.

Did you even read the article? Except for #6, this looks like an Obama apologist's cut-and-paste stock response. As for decentralization, do you think the concentration of wealth and power in ever-fewer hands is a good thing? Do you like having little to no say in the decisions that affect your life?

I wrote this article in the spirit of open debate, but your response suggests that your mind is closed tight.

read your article of course. it's a stew of incorrect points on which you build a puffery loaded diatribe.

Jefferson and Washington despised political parties, or factions, as inimical to democracy. Priest or party-ridden societies, Jefferson knew, would never be real democracies. Washington knew that policy decisions belong to the people as a whole and that parties put those back into the hands of a few. Representative democracy itself was a compromise to the technology of communication and travel that existed in their time, but is now corrupted and obsolete. As a progressive who sometimes supports Green Party candidates to at least drive a wrench into the existing stalemate that blocks popular will from having any mechanism of expression much less fulfillment in a corporate run monopoly state, I still feel the real solution relies on thinking outside this box and realizing participatory democracy by restoring the commonwealths of education and electronic media for full debate and simple referendum on issues. Direct allocation of income tax, including corporate and progressive taxes for revenue would change many things. Greens have two advantages at present. They represent change and they do not have to win an election to benefit from taking part in one. If Cynthia McKinney could have gotten progressives to give her 5% of the vote in the last election (assuming the controlled media had let them know she was even running) the party could have had status and federal funding to wage a real campaign the next time. This is true in many states where a minimal percentage of votes for the Green party will not change the outcome of the "evil of two lessers" race but will provide ballot access, funding, fundraising options, debate participation and more in the next election. The majority of people in this country now realize they have little or no benefit coming from either major party and no say over their lives or future, so they are ready to turn to a third party option. The corporations have created the Tea Party agenda and candidates knowing that real progressives may otherwise organize this dissent in an anti-corporate direction. Similar funding brought Hitler and the Nazi party to triumph in the '30s in Germany and Italy, where Mussolini accurately described fascism as corporatism plus reaction, the merger of the corporations and the state. A majority of Americans agree with the Green party agenda when they are exposed to it, but it is hidden from them. Those what want such change are being told it is impossible to achieve, though, and that a Green vote is a wasted vote. There is one strategy to overcome that reluctance and fear, and that is to get pledges to vote Green in advance of the election if enough others will do so to win the election. It is easy enough to determine a minimum voting level from past elections to determine any given election and position, so that can be the stated goal and pledge total results, by card or electronic, can be posted for each upcoming election online. This will let people say they will vote Green if they can win, because in reality they can. The rest is self-defeating prophecy. The other strategy that can help Greens win is to make the creation of informed participatory democracy part of their agenda so that they are not just elitists who push what they see as progressive issues, but in fact will empower all people to make decisions about thing that affect their lives. Nobody can represent 100 people, much less hundreds of thousands in any electoral precinct or district. We have mass communication now, and therefore such "representation" becomes an obstruction to democracy. If we spend out lives voting against Republicans and reactionaries out of fear, and for Democrats out of the same fear, when will we ever vote for what we actually want and support out of hope? And finally, much more important than voting at this point, is to work to establish independent and decentralized community economies, agriculture and energy systems that can make survival possible for humans and the planet while there is still time. This collapsing system will not save us even if we had Green party candidates in place across the country. "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act," George Orwell.

Two other articles worth reading in connection with this one:

• "A Voters' Revolt Against Two-Party Rule: Ending the Stranglehold of the Titanic Parties"
By Scott McLarty in OpEdNews.com, Oct. 29
http://www.opednews.com/articl...

• *We All Know Tea Party Repubs Are Scary. But Are Democrats in the Congress Worth Defending At All?"
By Bruce A. Dixon, Black Agenda Report, Oct. 27
http://www.blackagendareport.c...

Over the last 30 years, the Libertarian Party has never won a major race, but has pushed the Republican party to the right. That is reality.

During the Age of Reform (1840's - 1930's), the Progressive Party and Unions, never won a national race, but created pressure in the streets and at the ballot box to achieve major successes (Child Labor, 40 hour week, Woman's Suffrage, Social Security). That is reality.

During the Free Speech, Civil Rights, Anti-War and Environmental movements of the 1940's - 1960's, major reforms such as 2 major Civil Rights laws and EPA, were achieved by pressure from groups outside of the two kabuki parties. That is reality.

Clearly the 'our-way-or-the-highway', inside the beltway Democrats contributed not one iota to any of that. They only followed once they saw their only other choice was to become irrelevant.

So yes, let's get "realistic." Support the Green Party, Vote, Get In The Street.

Or we can keep getting screwed by corporate controlled, bullying, ITB Dems and corporate controlled Rethuglicans.

That's reality.

ccrider, ( I remember an old old song from the 50's by that name), unless the Greens have a plan to get the core base of both major Parties to switch sides, how are the Greens really going to change anything, GIVEN, the lousy system that is in place now? That is my whole point. That system must be changed before anything else can happen.

I read ferrets planks and can agree with them. But it all comes down to getting the votes. And neither side's core base will even think about not supporting their Party. It's My Party Right or Wrong to them.

If the Greens and others fed up with the D's and R's would come together and work to address the real issue of way too much money being allowed into politics and work to get an amendment banning such money, then, and only then, will the Greens have a real chance at attracting support and votes.

To say that such a thing can't happen is to say, I'll settle for what we have now. And that is wrong.

Back in the mid to late 50's no one in the South could conceive of a real Civil Rights Bill being signed into law. But it happened.

We are facing a much worse situation with the money. Had this kind of money been spread around back then, we'd likely still have real segregation today. But it wasn't and even with the bribing going on then, a lot of congress critters realized that they really needed to do some good for the Country at times.

Now our congress critters have seen that they don't have to do near as much and they get so much more money. We can't even think about getting enough of them together to make the changes we need for fair and open elections where any Party has a real chance. That is why we must support such an amendment.

Check out these two links, the same group, a non-partisan group, and see what they are trying to do.

www.fixcongressnow.org and http://www.fixcongressfirst.or...

Greens are already doing everything you mentioned. Green candidates pledge not to accept corporate money. Greens support public financing, and make corporate campaign spending an issue when Democrats and Republicans won't.

Voting Green helps to advance the cause of public campaign financing in a way that voting duopoly doesn't. The more progressives start voting Green, the sooner one of two things will happen: the Democrats will act on the progressive agenda to keep from losing votes, or the Greens will gain the critical mass they need to win power and get the ball rolling on reform. Most likely, we would see a combination of both. I see that as the most viable strategy right now for changing the system.

Then you don't understand the system.

Your reply indicates you don't understand the history of the Era of Reform and you haven't read the Green Party platform.

We all agree on what needs to be done. The only question is how. This is not going to happen overnight.

There is a path to truly progressive reform, but it doesn't initially involve either of the two kabuki parties. In the end they will be forced to reform or be consigned to the dust bin of history.

It involves struggle by the people, not the parties. The parties are initially irrelevant if we are going to have a solution.

Study your history.

Obviously you didn't bother to look at the links I provided. Lots of luck to you on 10 and 15% of the votes changing anything. You will need it.

Face reality.

Farmertx, he can't hear you and many won't listen....it's a pointless exercise when all you are saying is how to improve their own chances and he wants to argue with you about your rather obvious solutions. I suspect they are young and naive. I was once the same. They have been around for decades but remain unviable. You give them the one solution we all should be pursuing in earnest and get nothing but baited into a pointless attempt at argument. It's bewildering.

I thought CC was making some good points in his last post. It is going to take all shades of progressives to get together, get this money and lobbying thing fixed and then start out to get some traction. I'm only 8 years younger than you Farmertx so I don't expect to see much of a change and maybe it never will, I' never dreamed even 20-years ago this country could turn so far right especially after what the right did to it.

Gosh, I apologize, I thought you were way younger. The thing is progressives all see the same problems....Green or not. All Farmertx is saying and I have to agree is that the Green party diverts votes to the GOP. This is no time for that sort of thing. I never thought I would see the country this right wing but it is. I don't see how the Green party will gain much traction in this political climate....when the Dems are hardly viable. We have a duopoly...which none of us like. We do need to come together but not by abandoning whatever power we now have inside the big tent party for a party that is not on the ballot in many states. I can't read the future. Frankly, I don't think change comes from the top down, which is what CC is saying. I agree with that. It will take the will of the people and I'm not sure if they will learn from suffering more but that is surely what will be happening for quite some time. We will see how it plays out. But, until ordinary Americans become more politically invested nothing much is gonna change and the way that happens historically is people have to be in terrible shape to start asking the right questions and willing to go out and demonstrate the way they just did in France. Of course, in France, the unions are still a major force and power. Imagine a million people in the streets, shutting the country down because the gov't wanted to raise the retirement age up a few years? We could use just a fraction more of that outrage in our own citizens.

How does the Green Party divert votes to the GOP? If you're talking about the "spoiler dilemma", that's covered in my article. I'm not voting for Democrats when I can vote Green, but if Democrats want my 2nd or 3rd place vote, they can pass instant runoff voting whenever they're ready.

If you don't like the duopoly, why are you reinforcing it with your actions?

Lesser-evil voting has failed as a strategy. As I argued in the article, lesser-evil voting, combined with the rightward pull exerted by corporate money, is responsible for our current situation. Many realize this, but when asked if they will do something about it, they either say it's not yet the right time, or even better - it's too late. Well, when is the right time to challenge the system that is destroying us? Who is going to get off the fence and join those of us who are trying to forge a better future?

Yes, in the last one, I was more encouraged than in the earlier ones.

I don't know if I'll ever see the time when citizens are allowed a real voice in their Government as we were taught was intended.

The right are very effective at propaganda, smoke and mirrors and disinformation. Plus there is way too much apathy in this Country concerning politics. And too many who are politically active are naive or will not face reality.

Yes, I've seen that and had to leave him/her to their own strategy. Sad, but like you, I once had all the answers ... just didn't understand the questions. Live and learn the hard way worked for us and it just might work for them.

Reality. There's that word again. "If I say it, then that's reality." Sounds like MoveOn and PDA when they told us that Single Payer was not "realistic."

Everybody wants the silver bullet. Fix it now. Let me do a little point-and-click activism, make a couple of blog entries and let's be done with it.

Not gonna happen. The mood of this country now is not conducive to the struggle and sacrifice over time that's going to be needed.

In the late 1800s and early 1900s, people had no choice but to go hungry, sleep in the street and watch their loved ones die young. Only then were they ready to agitate and to 'throw their bodies upon the wheels' of the society to the point that the filthy rich understood things would have to change or they would loose their golden goose.

It'll be awhile before the folks in this country are ready for that.

We're still too used to the relative ease and plenty of the 1980's and 90's (bought with our foremothers blood). We keep thinking we can just snap our fingers and go back to that.

We'll have to get beat down much more before most folks are really ready to do what it's going to take.

Okay, your plan to wait until things get much worse works for you. That plus the sure knowledge that the politicians will look all the way to the bottom and see the Greens got some votes and decide that they must change their ways.

I bow to your superior reasoning skills.

Sorry but you're still missing my point.

I'm already participating in Public Citizen and every other effort I can find - like the links you provided - to modify the Constitution and any and all other recommendation I can find to remove big money from politics. But there just aren't that many of us yet.

I go to demonstrations in my local - 150mi radius - area and maybe there are 10 or 12 other people. Pathetic!

What I'm seeing on the ground is not at this point significant enough to get the job done. A lot more people are going to have to get motivated beyond blogging at the problem in order to change the system.

When they are ready, some of us will already be there waiting for them, but as of yet the head counts are far too low in any and all of these efforts.

That makes me think the suffering will have to get much worse before the majority of folks put their laptops away, get off their duffs, and get in the street. And I'm trying to make the case for the one and only historical precedent.

It's not my way OR your way. It's my way AND your way AND every other way - as long as once one of those ways gets some momentum, the 'our-way-or-the-highway' bullying Democrats don't barge in and try to take over - as they have done with MoveOn, PDA, HCAN, and many many other well motivated efforts.

I'm afraid this may be your battle then since I'm old and quite ill, not able to do more than get on my laptop as I'm well past my marching days. Being so ill without benefit of health insurance is not something I would wish on you or anyone in this country, trust me. I grew up in a time when shocking as it may be to the younger among us...there were no computers or even cell phones. I did a fair amount of protesting to end the war, enact civil rights, further the women's movement and so forth. I have a clean conscious in that regard. However, some of us are actually bed ridden and pretty astonished by the likes of Sharon Angle (2nd amendment remedies!), Rand Paul, pick just about anything that cretin has said and the fact that a mere 2 years ago it looked to many like the GOP was completely demolished. That they could be fairing so well a mere two years after the country finally went into complete meltdown is frightening. I hope you will take your own suggestions...they sound rather good to me.

I was right there with you during the 60s and still am. I took my draft physical right along with everybody else. You and I can remember when a demonstration was a demonstration - in part because there was no CNN, FOX et all to marginalize those gatherings.

Actually there are about as many older folks protesting now as there were in the 60's. But there are just so many fewer younger folks now than there were back then.

Can't figure that out - as they have so much more to lose seemingly.

I must have missed because you failed to mention it until now.

I congratulate you, then, on your efforts. As you saw on the link I provided, there are only about 50 or so commenting so far. And a few of those are naysayers.

It won't be quick nor easy. And if the leadership of any third Party would get involved and urge this to their members, it would help.

My age (66) and not great health plus a very limited SS check preclude me from traveling further than Dallas, which I plan to do this month to be in a counter demonstration on the dedication of Shrub's lie-bury, limits me basically to this keyboard in trying to get that message out.

Best of luck to you in your efforts.

Without increasing the Green Party voter base there is no hope for the future. We have 2 more years before the next election to further spread the message -- and then two more years after that.

This is a fine article that discusses every problem we have with our corrupt government except one: Tuesday's results will surprise us all when the voting machines flip whatever votes the Dems get. Example: Whitman in California is expected to lose to Brown, but she won't, thanks to the wonders of electronic voting. Any votes for a Green candidate will dwindle to the point where it looks as if nobody should take the GP seriously.
This is not meant to discourage any of us progressives from working toward creating a third party that includes the Greens and every other progressive group.

Unfortunately, this current system of legalized bribery and unlimited secret corporate funds for attack ads does not bode well for any third Party. That is the harsh reality.

Another reality is that unless we can force through an amendment to ban donations from anyone who is not eligible to vote for a candidate, and hopefully setting an upper limit of $2000 on the allowed donations, ain't nothing going to change.

Congress regularly enacts Bills that "will clean up politics", and there are so many loopholes that nothing changes. Not to mention the right wing will just ignore it anyhow because there are no meaningful penalties. A slap on the wrist never deterred anyone past 5 years of age.

Plus the Green Party of TX did itself a huge disfavor by accepting money from the incumbent Governor's money people to prepare a petition to allow the Green's to be on the State ballot. So much for their integrity.

The Greens and all persons fed up with the status quo would do much better by working together to push such an amendment through. It won't be quick. It won't be easy. But the alternative is more of the same and worse.

The politicians pay no attention to who came in last. Only to who won. Neither major Party is going to change their ways because a third Party got 3, or 5 or even 10% of the vote. Ross Perot got almost 20% and nothing changed.

Work towards changing the existing system and the Greens will have a real chance. Until that happens, it's just wishful thinking. Not putting the Greens down, just being realistic.

I love it when people try to demonize the Greens by accusing them of accepting help from the Republicans, when the Democrats have been actively conspiring with Republicans for over a century to keep each other ON the ballot and every other party OFF the ballot. It's this sort of hypocrisy from fairweather progressives that has a lot of us turned off of the Democratic Party.

Damn, wrong button. Did not like your comment, sorry. You write 2 mistakes here - farmertx was hardly demonizing the Green Party, he merely questioned their integrity and it wouldn't be much of a political party if you couldn't do that and 2. you're writing as though the Democrats are a progressive party for the most part. That is very far from the truth. They may have the only people in Congress who can be called progressives -- Feingold, Grayson, Lee, Kucinich, -- and 2 of them are likely going down, but as a party they are close to a mirror image of the R's. And of course they'd no doubt colluded in the past to keep all 3rd parties off the ballot, but I'd make a bet if they took away every restriction on every book in every state in the country as to getting parties on the ballot, it would come out very close to the same. R and D are ingrained in the American genetic code and its going to take a lot of work to change that.
And take away the miketherevelator liked this. Alternet, MOVE THESE BUTTONS AWAY FROM EACH OTHER. 2ND TIME TODAY IVE DONE THAT.

Sorry, looks like I started typing and lost my mind ranting...going on and on to a long post that is all over the map....in tangents. No excuse but sorry for the length and lack of focus. Blame it on frustation and a lack of self control on my part. Feel free to skip it...I do that with overly long rants from others ;>)

Skip it? You just put me closer to deciding I might vote Democratic after all. Started this weekend not sure I'd even bother to vote, got to saying ok i'll write in Noam Chomsky or Hugo Chavez or something, then ok, maybe the Green party guy, but your 'rant' was filled with good things that I had overlooked in my disappointment with Obama. You reminded me they are the reason we can eat most stuff and not wonder if we're going to die, drink pure water even though none exists in the wild anymore, go to national parks that the GOP considers a waste of good exploitable acreage, and all the rest. It was a good little comparison history and got me to thinking even as i was reading it. I'll just have to put some of Obama's more sorry decisions as regards civil liberties and due process and concentrate on the GOPers gloating and I should be able to pull the D lever. Palin is starting in already just saw a headline on one other site where she's saying You Dems Blew It. Well Sarah looks like your boy also blew it up there and you 're still gonna have Lisa to contend with.

I was reading last night somewhere though that if the Dems are going to get smashed, this is the election to have it happen. If both houses go to the R's, everybody is going to see why we were in the trouble we were in just 2 years ago. Can't believe after seeing that happen they want to go back to naked deregulated free marklet capitalism with no rules or accountability. Greed trumps intelligence, common sense, thoughts of country and everything else.
You're in Wiconsin too? I'm must below it but my brother lives in norther Wisconsin. To me Wisconsin is Madison and Milwaukee and it's hard for me to imagine any state getting rid of Feingold but a state with Madison and parts of Milwaukee anyway makes it very hard to deal with. But my brother says up here he is it's exaclty like where he left - Arizona. And I lived in Arizona for 3 years and still have nightmares. Feingold losing would be very sad for me because i really admire him. It's to a point a guy like him can't get a whole lot done but he's an articulate voice for progressives, he speaks his mind and he stays true to his principles. He caved on HCR but I can't fault him or Kuch or anybody on that one. They were laying that you'll go down in history as the man who defeated Health Care. That's a load to drop on one man's shouders, even though now thatone person would be a hero to a lot of people.
But it's starting to look like a real bloodbath could take place Tuesday. Nate Silver is predicting the R's n the House to take 78 seats from Democrats and Gallup is predicting over 40 seats. Either one enough for them to gloat now and be in the same boat the Dems are in now in 2 years. Because some of these yahoos they'e voting in are going to make even Harry Reid look like he halfway knew what he was doing.
Rand Paul heading for a blowout victory. That's good news. He'll be embarassing the R's about twice a week . But Feingold is still down by 7 percent. I can't believe Wisconsin is actually going to vote him out. But i never would have believed Obama would be running an expanded war in 3 countries and keeping nukes on the table against Iran a country that is never going to attack anyone with the cards stacked against them the way they are.
Well, we'll see about Tuesday. But you know the R's are going to overreach, they're going to muck up the economy again and hopefully prove once and for all they're in favor or letting Wall Street do whatever they want to do. And by 2012 they'll be in terrible shape. Of course much of the American public is dumber than fence posts so can't really take much heart from that.
But whatever you do, don't apologize -- if you were writing gibberish that's one thing but you were showing an impressive ability to look past the bad the Dems have done the last 2 years and there's been plenty of that and concentrate on the good stuff and even I admit there's been some of that. But at the end of the day, the Rethugs are just so -- repulsive that what's my protest vote going to do? They're going to get the point if they lose even 40 seats. And hopefully with Rahm gone, they won't think the lesson is to go even further right.

Honestly, my post was a mess. I don't know how you got threw it. I'm glad if it helped you to vote Dem. Anything else is self defeating. I'm a Nate Silver watcher, myself. He's usually close but this election even by his admission is a bit unusual. I think we lose the house...pretty much a given at this point and we lose some really great guys like Feingold. Anyone listening to Palin has the emotional maturity of a 12 year old. The GOP has had the advantage of excessive funding from billionaires here and abroad.....even though that is illegal. The US Chamber of Commerce has some explaining to do about admitting to accepting funds from other countries and putting it in the "general fund".
I would agree with you that losing this midterm may not be as bad as we have all thought. It will be painful to those good fellows like Feingold, for sure. I'm really upset about that. Oh, I live in Florida, only lived in Wisconsin for 5 years when my husband and I raced greyhounds up there. That was a bit of culture shock for me. I'm originally a New Yorker...so not used to those wide open spaces and damn the wind was constant there. I take great offense that anyone like Feingold or Kucinach is responsible for healthcare...they did the best they could to get better healthcare but didn't drop the ball when it came to the final vote. It would have been a far bigger loss if Obama's plan was defeated. Healthcare would wait another 20 years before it was touched again and frankly, it is not sustainable as it is today....not with 50 million with no coverage, untold millions who have little coverage and the rest that can't afford it even if they have insurance...the price of co pays is insane. I know I fought for single payer but hindsight tells me that it was never an option that would have played. One only has to remember how Clinton presented congress with a plan that they shredded completely. No matter how the right calls it Obamacare with a snicker...why are they so intent on destroying it....which is what they claim they will do? Since when do they do what's good for the people? It's not a perfect bill, neither was financial regulation...it's a start and it was enough for Wall St. and big business to fund the GOP who are currently outspending the Dems 8 to 1. That's something to really think about. We on the left are never satisified and hold our leaders feet to the fire, as we should. That does not happen on the right...who ever called out Bush on the right? And lets not forget what Obama walked into day one. The GOP has the same outline in their "new" Pledge to America as it did with their "Contract to America". Its all this talk about small gov't (under Regan gov't grew 3 times the size) and they plant fear into Americans about taxes...which they say Dems alway raise. Under Obama we experience one of the largest tax breaks in history but it was not the way Bush did it. Bush sent Americans checks for $300. It was a joke. And a useless expensive proposition. The GOP never owned any part of the 30+ years they destroyed FDR's new deal that distributed the wealth far more equally....it was a time when we could open small businesses and proper. Today, that is impossible. Corporations and billionaires now back the GOP exclusively. The only break came when Obama was elected because the GOP screwed up so badly under Bush he was the sure winner. Then he did the unthinkable to them....passed healthcare (and it's a huge achievement no matter how flawed or the GOP would not be trying to dismantle it. It will eventually lead to single payer since it's the price of healthcare in America is unsustainable.). I was disappointed but in hindsight single payer would never fly. All the bargaining chips were red herrings...this is politics and it's damn hard to turn left after years and years of right wing neo cons privatization schemes that have transferred wealth steadily to the 3% that own more than 97% combined. Keep in mind that for years the GOP worked on buying up the media. They were so successful that Americans are the only people in the world that think it's moral to make a profit on sickness and death. The entire selfish screed of the GOP has become so ingrained in the minds of Americans that they just chose new scapegoats amongst the poor to blame. It's hardly the poor that have destroyed our economy. The GOP has in mind the following:
1. Abolish the minimum wage
2. Kill Healthcare
3. End Unemployment benefits
4. Phase out Social Security by privatization (a program that is totally solvent until 2050 that we pay into every pay check, so NOT an entitlement)
5. Dump the 14th Ammendment
6. Dump public school education
The list is endless really. Why would these old teabagger want to pay for your kids to have an education when they got theirs. It's a soul sickness, really.
They want small gov't (although, that's just a talking point, has been for years). They want the right to decide what goes on in your bedroom and they even want to control your freaking reproductive system. How is that small gov't?
I look at 538, Nate Silver as well. He's not all that sure since this is a weird election. Harder to gauge than others in the past so I don't know how much of a blood bath it will be. But, I have thought that perhaps this is not gonna be as bad as we think. Listened to Jimmy Carter on Bill Maher's HBO show, RealTime this Friday. He said that "Obama might actually find freedom with at least one house not a Democractic majority" He pointed out how the GOP has never behaved like this in history....sitting out on the sidelines with no plan whatsoever...except the same one that caused all this redistribution of wealth to the top (which simply doesn't work, period) and the idea that it's fine to announce your out to defeat Obama is unAmerican. It matters not to them about the suffering we endure....just as long as they regain power. American's are gonna find this hard to miss when they start to do nothing but try and impeach Obama.
The country is so far to the right it has to eventually swing the other way...but, sadly the more tea partiers elected the harder that gets. The GOP has had control over the conversation. Their policies of the past 30 years have failed but they offer up the same ones repeatedly. They are the party of no ideas and no morals...running as the moral authority's, no less. Try Authoritarian...and then you have the right picture.
I suspect you don't have my years or those of Farmertx but good for you for being here and better that you are interested...so many of the young are not paying any attention at all. You will be on the right side of history but it's gonna be painful not just for you but for all of us, on either side. I'm not an apologist for Obama, far from it. But, I'm pragmatic and realistic. I think history will be kind to him. What we are experiencing was not caused by him and if he has made a few mistakes, they have been in perception. He's pissed off Wall Street and big business...so he's done something right. I'm not sure the country is ready for a fierce black man who could act the way LBJ did..in fact, I'm sure of that. So, he appears weak. I think we may see a different style appear when there is no Democratic majority which was really hardly solid...with the blue dogs worried about not getting elected for looking too liberal. The country just may change their tune when the get a load of GOP majority rule. Hard to tell with the American public. That we have candidates like Christine McDonnell, Sharon Angle, Michelle Bachman (Ugh, despicable) and all that money pouring in illegally to the US Chamber of Commerce....looking like bribes to the GOP to outsource more jobs to those country's that sent the cash? One can hope that Americans finally wake up and turn off Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, etc. Also, don't be too surprised by some of the Greens on this site...some are sincere, if misguided to my mind....others are posers who are GOP operatives. I know I was surprised to see that, myself. But, it was pointed out to me and as I have read so many of their posts....they don't ever call out the GOP. They show up here around election time and get young voters to throw votes away...which is tantamount to voting GOP. We need public financing of elections, real election reform and perhaps a system of alternative voting where you get a first and second choice. The people who work towards that are usually non partisan group or progressive Dems. Cant say that the Greens do that or not...don't go their sites. I won't make the mistake I made in 2000 voting for Ralph Nadar again. I think how different this country would have been without a Bush/Cheney administration. No Iraq, for one thing...so much I could type forever. Your wrote a good post and I'm glad you're here, friend.

I'm sick that Feingold is on is way out. I lived in Wisconsin for 5 years running a labor intensive racing kennel/ business that was up against a corporately owned greyhound track. Feingold was instrumental is making Wisconsin the sole state where labor had recourse against the corporately owned industry that made our first and only attempt at a strike back in the 1960's at of the many tracks in the state of Florida bring in scabs kennels. I was not in the business back then but my husband and many others watched as these scabs did the bidding of the corporately owned management and were forced to surrender to a contract that was heavily biased and truly showed how we would never be able to make a living much less a profit in that state. Wisconsin, largely due to our input directly to Feingold gave us a voice and the racetrack could no longer give us absurd contracts and had to negotiate with us because they Feingold listened and saw our complaints as not just legitimate but saw the stacked deck that was in place in virtually every state that legalized para-mutual gambling. The purging of all the progressive voices in the Democratic party is systemic and the GOP has pandered to the Tea Party making moderate Republicans an species that is now past endangered....they have been replaced by the most reactionary, radical elements of the fringe...a fringe that is growing as unemployment and foreclosures go unchecked largely due to republican obstructionism and blue dog collusion. I'm constantly berated by Greens for not being willing to vote by proxy for the GOP. Their arguments are not something I don't understand...hell, I don't need to be re-educated...I agree with them...just not their solution. The Democrats are a big tent party and the problem with big tents is that they look like a circus at times. The GOP marches lockstep and were effective in spreading myths that many Americans accept as absolutes, ie: big business creates jobs, gov't is evil (although, it's largely the GOP that has historically increased the size of gov't and made destroyed gov't from within). One look at the social democracy's of Europe proves that gov't is not the problem (but, Regan scored big with the remark that "Gov't is the problem" and there has been no going back from that position or the economic theories coming from the Chicago school of economics under Freidman that allowed the neo cons to advance corporate interests to the degree that even our right wing SCOTUS was brazen enough to argue the merits of their disastrous ruling in Citizen's United. So, we are further and further to the right than at any time in recent history and that makes the left (pick your poison, the progressives who are being voted out by low information voters in states like Wisconsin and Kuchinach in Ohio (think Grayson will survive this purge since he does what few in the Democratic party are willing to do....simplify the message to the degree that gets attention as well as play to the disenfranchised and those that have every reason to be fearful (but listen to Fox News, the propaganda wing of the GOP/Tea party who have capitalized on that fear and pump up the volume with race baiting...something that is always a winner for those looking to blame the poor who they also compete with for the few jobs left. The Dems didn't buy up the media and don't control the message and they will pay this midterm cycle. But, I'm wondering and this is just a guess if this doesn't give the Dems a chance to re-group and get them out of the hot seat of majority control. I watched Bill Maher's interview of President Carter this Friday on RealTime. Carter thought this might be a benefit for Obama who had little support from his own party, bad advisors and by managing to pass legislation (as poor as it was....let's give him some credit on healthcare....something that no president in 70 odd years has been capable of delivering. Carter said that this is a doorway to single payer which is why despite the backroom deals with Big Pharma and the ugly process that we witnessed and jumped up and down in condemnation about....is the political reality of DC. No progressive likes it and it gave plenty ammo against the president and Rahm (a weasel I wish had not been part of the poorly picked team Obama chose. I'm no Obama apologist but I'm also quite sure with liberals being drummed out by the electorate together with moderate GOP's (not sure that there is such a thing as a moderate GOP...an oxymoron if ever I heard one....but, it's a perfect example of our political climate). In this climate where moderates are extinct and Democratic stalwarts that have stood with the labor and the middle class all of their political lives....it's just not realist to believe that the country is ready for liberals (who now call themselves progressives since the very word liberal is tainted by years of right wing rhetoric and the sellouts that cared more about their own political survival than the people they are supposed to represent. Another great idea that has been kicked around is alternative voting. It should be the focus of the Green party and those of us in the Democratic base that are watching our liberals lose to wingnuts. This would be a system where we get to have a first choice selection and a back up second choice if the first has no real chance at a win. This would give us an idea what people who don't want to throw their vote away to a party that has announced their intention to eliminate the requirement of minimum wages, dismantle public schools (I heard Glenn Beck (his eyes filling with tears, natch) rail against the public school system he accuses of brainwashing our children into being taught about evolution since, naturally he wants them taught to believe biblical gibberish written over 6,000 years ago. Science is frowned upon by these zealots and education is not something that falls under a human right anymore than a healthcare which is only availabe to the rich. As a country we have been neo conned into thinking anything that doesn't make a profit is somehow suspect...and, of course, socialism. When the house is a GOP majority they will be trying once again to privatize SS and raising the age to 70...won't make much difference if it's privatized since it will be gambled away on Wall street...something Bush failed to get passed (it was his last attempt at a parting gift and if he succeed the crash of the market would have destroyed even more people than it already managed to do.). Their great hero Ronnie Regan and their continued effort to dismantle FDR's new deal is almost complete. As bad as the Dems have been in recent years, they are still the party that brought us national parks, clean water, civil rights legislation, social security, medicare and any number of things that the GOP fought tooth and nail to deny the people. President Carter was quite clear and remarkably calm by the prospect of the GOP having to take a leadership role in the congress. They have been allowed to sit on the sidelines taking pot shots and offering nothing new to address the plight of Americans. Their rhetoric is tired and shows the contempt they have always had for the working class and now the middle class. They may be exposed as the economy continues to falter, the one great motivator that gets people at first angry but will eventually make them think as they see the GOP go full throttle in their attempt to impeach Obama while real suffering continues. Carter believes this will free Obama to act in a way he has not really had until now. No one really knows who Obama is, not me and not those that have been so disappointed. This will show us if he is merely a pawn or a patient man who has proven that any attempt at bipartisanship is impossible. Liberals have never been afraid to hold their all leaders feet to the fire, something we never see in the GOP. He has 2 more years left to perhaps change tactics with little to lose since he certainly has lost the support of big business with even the barest of legislation....that only squeaked by. I was disappointed that single payer was not even allowed a seat at the table. I also thought he remained to removed from the process, leaving it to congress and worse to Max Baccus. I think now think that he over learned the mistake of the Clintons who handed congress a completely finished bill that got torn apart and withered and died. His policy has been a copy of the Clinton 3rd way but the GOP made clear early on that Rush Limbaugh was the unofficial leader of the party. His desire to defeat Obama was extremely telling. It shows that the GOP only cares about regaining their majority power and Mitch McConnell repeated their only real agenda just recently claiming it was the only priority of the GOP. How the sick, the poor, and any assortment of minorities can be so angry as to not hear these people and their agenda is the great problem with the American public. They have a remarkable hatred for "intellectuals" which now includes those of us that actually read or write. They listen to non stop falsehoods on the right wing radio stations and watch Fox News as though it were real news and not complete propaganda. The tea party may have started as a grassroots movement...but, it's now a corporately funded astro-turf assortment of groups funded by the Koch brothers, Dick Armey and billionaires hiding behind the ruling of the right wing SCOTUS...the Roberts court which opened the floodgates to unlimited special interest funding that we are protected by anonymity. I'm welcome the Greens or any progressives to get information to the American people about alternative voting and public funding of elections. This is a matter we all should be behind no matter what you're political ideology may be. Until this becomes the rallying cry of us all....we can look forward to whatever is left for the GOP to finish the job they started as soon as FDR made the strides he was able to achieve that made for a country that was the envy of the world. To those still holding on to the idea that America is considered "exceptional"...you must be watching Fox news. We have been the laughing stocks of the free world for years...especially under the leadership of Bush who gave laughing stocks a bad name.

No worries, we all hit that button by accident a few times....it's part of the fun of posting here on AlterNet....that with the disqus comment section that does some rather wild things at times ;>)

I agree on the like button. At least have an edit function where you can undo it.

Never been able to undo a like, farmertx.....have learned how to leave a comment when there is no reply button but I'm pretty sure a like is stuck?

Yup. Likes is akin to diamonds, they are forever. dammit.

LOL, good one!

You will not find that I've ever held the Democrat Party blameless. They are (barely) the lesser of two evils.

This could all change if people would get behind a movement to remove big money from politics. I, along with some others, advocating a non-partisan solution that would allow the Greens or any other third Party a real chance.

If pointing out the hypocrisy of the TX Green Party is demonizing them, so be it. You are fairly new here, so you missed a lot of my earlier posts.

Check out the links I provided in reply to ccrider and tell me what is wrong with that approach. Other than it won't be quick and easy. But it will work, much better than thinking that less than 20% of the voters will change any Party.

FYI The Green Party of Texas accepted not a cent from any corporate interests. 9 Boxes of signed petitions were given to us and paid for by a 501 C-4 corporation. We still do not know who or how many contributors there were. Given the difficulty deliberately caused by the restrictive ballot laws, we accepted these signatures with pleasure and have used the opportunity to speak for progressive ideas. The conservative Dems immediately propagandized this into high crimes, instituted a bogus law suit, and will continue to oppose the Greens and any progressive forces that contest their right to represent the working class in this country. They are thoroughly in bed with the wealthy elites, totally supportive of an imperial America, often garnering major support from the same people who support the republican candidates. What isn't realistic is to expect that to change without an opposition that can wrest the allegiance of working class people, us, from them, and that can only be done by standing for our interests and our values. What isn't realistic is to support candidates who don't do that, and expect to see a progressive future realized.

One final thought on the lawsuit. It wasn't so much as being against the Greens as it was against lil Ricky's effort to have multiple candidates on the ballot as he knows he can't win a two person race. They did the same thing last time by backing Friedman and lil Ricky crept away with a whopping 36% of the vote ... in a Red State.

Now, thanks to the Greens closing their eyes, we stand a good chance of being saddled with this hard working ( he puts in 8 hours some weeks) Governor out for all the bribes he can get.

Keep telling yourself that no one knows where the money came from. Fairy godmothers, maybe.

www.dallasnews.com/.../dws/......

So what would you have had the Greens do? Roll over and decline ballot access because the money probably came from the R's? Should we have said Vote Democratic with no choice? Vote for the man who believes in the death penalty, will not to tax the rich, will not even put the words income tax and Texas in the same sentence, will not support a living wage, no discernible policy on immigration?
Which one is that? You can't tell, because it is both of them. And you think that it would be moral to leave the field to them?

That is a question which goes to the ethical standards committee. TX makes it all but impossible to get ballot access unless a Party has strong grass root support. That support was evidently lacking until Republican source money got involved. Why that made a difference, I don't know. But it surely did make a difference.

As I have mentioned time and again, the Greens in all States, along with everybody else who is fed up with the choices that we are limited to by the current system, should work to change that system.

Then, and only then, will the Greens or any other Party stand a real chance. This isn't about blocking nor denying the Greens. It's about a better system for choosing our Representatives, one that works in the citizens as well as the Country's best interests.

As to your closing sentence, just how would a very small percentage of the total vote change anybody's mind? We will see come Wednesday just how many votes the Greens mustered in this TX election. And I'll wager that whoever wins, they will pay no attention to that number.

Work with the group I keep linking to (in above post) and you will be working to help the Greens make a real difference if they merit the support of the voters.

No, TX ballot access laws make it all but impossible to get on the ballot unless you have a lot of money. Grassroots support is not enough in the states with tough ballot access laws. You can't get much more grassroots than labor unions, but even unions couldn't get candidates on the ballot this year in North Carolina, another state with notoriously anti-competitive laws.

The only purpose of laws like this is to make it extremely difficult for citizens to exercise their right to run for office. Why would anyone calling themselves a democrat defend such laws?

If you are suggesting that I am defending the restrictive access laws, well, you have a problem.

I've seen nothing in your comments nor the article that suggests you are doing anything to reform campaign finance outside of thinking that it can be enacted by congress.

There have been numerous "attempts" at campaign finance reform by congress. Those "attempts" have so many loopholes as to compare to Swiss Cheese. Expecting congress critters to outlaw the source of their bribe money is akin to thinking criminals would write good laws to protect the citizens.

I have constantly stressed that by joining an effort for a Constitutional amendment addressing this issue, like I linked to in another post on this thread, would serve to benefit the Green and any other third Party.

Why do you view me as opposing your Party?

added on edit:
I saw your response to Usual Suspects. Why do you think that either major Party will look at any vote numbers other than who got the most? At least that is how it is with our current system, a system I advocate changing though the amendment process.

Neither Party will change as it would not set well with those who supply the money.

Being realistic is a tough stance these days, farmertx. And I think of how I voted for Nadar in 2000....many still argue about whether 2.7 of the vote would have swung things in favor of Gore. We can only guess about how the country would have faired without a Bush/Cheney...who put the nail in the coffin. I honestly don't know what anyone would have done as President after those two. I sure as hell don't think a McCain/Palin team would have brought any kind of change. I, for one, did not mistake Obama for a liberal. Nor do I think the country was ready for a real liberal or perhaps Dennis Kuchinach would have been the candidate....who knows? I want the name of any green that is capable of playing in Peoria. We are all depressed. Progressives have been ignored for years and years...and yet, some still think the country that is radically turning right is ready for Greens? Not at all realistic.

Between Farmertx and UsualSuspects you've got it nailed from A to Z. Not realistic and as tx says the money and the loopholes need to be fixed before we can even start talking about 3rd and dedicated progressive parties. You're all jumping in before the necessaries are taken care of. You're also fighting 210 years of a self-perpetuating two-party system in this country. Rules have got to be changed, money has got to be equalized, and the MSM has to realize it's not 1880 any more before anything is going to happen for progressives. and Like frmrtx said, 'not putting anybody or any party down, it's just the facts.' When it comes to this being the best political system in the world, don't believe the hype.

TY, Mike. Farmertx is, of course, spot on regarding the money in politics. What we should all be consumed with (it's way past a matter of concern) is fair, publicly funded elections. Obviously, this would require people coming together. You made an excellent point about "jumping in" before the necessary removal of special interest money. The oligarchs) must be removed if a third party is to succeed. Good post, Mike and thanks again.

Many people are saying that we need major political reforms - instant runoff voting, proportional representation, public campaign financing - before an independent progressive party can succeed. So what is the strategy for accomplishing those reforms?

My strategy is to support candidates who vocally advocate for such reforms, and who practice what they preach by refusing corporate money. For example, Howie Hawkins, the Green Party candidate for NY Governor, mentioned instant runoff voting, proportional representation, and public campaign financing in this year's only televised NY gubernatorial debate. No other candidate did.

My vote for Hawkins helps to win a ballot line for a party that will run more pro-reform candidates. It shows Democrats and Republicans that if they want my vote, they need to swear off corporate money and support sweeping political reforms. It also creates a real incentive, for Democrats especially, to implement instant runoff voting, so they can get 2nd-place preferences from Green voters in tight races.

Dr. King warned us not to listen to the voices who always say "I agree with you, but the time is not right". We need to break out of the two-party stranglehold, and I've identified several ways that voting Green moves us towards that goal. If not now, when?

A couple things here:

1. There were exactly ZERO Green party candidates on my ballot, and only TWO Progressive party candidates. Why is that?

2. The Greens have been talked about for years, but never seem to get any traction ditto with the Socialists and the Progressives.

Is it our controlled press? The fact that money talks and bullshit walks? The abysmal ignorance of most Americans?

OK, that's more than a couple things, but the ONLY way to level the playing field is to take corporate money out of the equation, and give other parties a chance at the limelight. Educating our people (whether they want it or not) is also of the utmost importance.

1. What state are you in? In many states ballot access laws make it extremely difficult to run for office outside the duopoly.

2. The answer is complex. It's a combination of many factors. The biggest reason is the system itself: plurality-take-all elections, elections determined by advertising budgets, closed debates. The second biggest reason is that too many self-identified progressives go along with the system they should be challenging. The corporate media's refusal to cover Greens, except to marginalize them, is another factor. Americans hate the two-party system more and more, but they have been thoroughly conditioned to believe it's the only possible way.

I totally agree about the corporate contributions to politics. I would also add that public unions should not be allowed to donate either. Public paid workers using tax $ to pay dues. Dues are spent by the leaders get choose where the(our) money goes. That is a LOT of $..... http://www.opensecrets.org/org...

See my reply to ccrider and check the links at the bottom. Please.